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This is a response to this blog: http://villagersonline-archive.com/users/stevek/blogs/cremation


From: mike
Date: Mon Apr 19 16:20:08 MST 2004 Subject: cremation

Responses
mike: I stand corrected (4/20/04)
rodhugen: Correcting the correction (4/20/04)
mike: oops (4/20/04)
Responses (sorted by date)
mike: oops (4/20/04)
rodhugen: Correcting the correction (4/20/04)
mike: I stand corrected (4/20/04)
I cannot give you scripture that tells us wether or not we should be buried or cremated. Whatever method we choose for our remains, the end result is ashes or dust. I do not think it matters to God, and I know it does not matter to the one being buried or cremated. It is a personal decision.
As for the pegan kings of the old testament, the fact they were pegans was the issue. Not the method of burial.
I am sure this will come up at the Ragin Sage tonite. See you then.

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From: mike
Date: Tue Apr 20 06:46:48 MST 2004 Subject: I stand corrected

At the Ragin Sage last night, Rod brought up some important points about cremation. First, it dodges the fact our loved one is dead. There is no finality to cremation. If uncle John is in an urn on the mantle, or is carried around in a box, there is a sense he is still with us, even though his body is a small pile of ashes. We do not have to deal with thoughts of eternity.
The idea is having ones ashes spread around a forest, dumped into the ocean, ect. to be one with nature is a pagan practice, and one we ought to avoid. After we die, we are destined to one place or the other. Not to become part of the force. If in death, we can further the gospel by forcing people to face eternity, we should.
I am not opposed to cremation because I do not think God can resurrect a pile of ashes. We all are going to be dust sooner or later. I do believe it is not glorifying the Lord if we choose a pagan practice to accomidate our families, or to make us feel better about the death we all must face.

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From: rodhugen
Date: Tue Apr 20 08:48:10 MST 2004 Subject: Correcting the correction

I don't believe I spoke against cremation last night at the Raging Sage. I think I was looking at the 'positive' elements of dealing with the reality of death and burial. In North American culture we have moved far from having to deal with death in a straight forward manner. When I was a kid a great Uncle died and his body was 'laid out' in the living room of their home for about a week and the presence of the power of death was palpable to the gathered family and friends. As a kid I was struck by the waxen shell that had once been my relative and I got to see close up and personal what the end of man is. The smell of decay was real. Oddly, I didn't feel traumatized by that, but it instead brought me to a realization that death is real but that life also must be real and that I ought to live life well. I don't think I thought that all out as a kid, but I clearly recognized the two opposing forces. It also allowed me to not grab the popular notions that death is just a 'passing through the door' imagery. Death is ugly and bodies decay and the shells that were animated by spirit are not pretty when the spirit leaves and returns to its Maker. "He looks so lifelike," is just euphemism.

I note that most funerals I conduct are no longer funerals, they are memorial services. The body is never viewed by family and friends, the body is then cremated and the ashes placed in an urn or box, and that is all followed by a memorial service where we remember the good things about our friend or relative. All this can be conducted without having to face the stench of death. It is almost like the person went on extended vacation or simply disappeared.

I love the story of Lazarus being raised from the dead. Jesus commands the crowd to roll away the stone and the people are concerned because it has been three days and the body will have begun to stink. They know this not because of theory or something they read somewhere, but because they are acquainted with death experientially and intimately. Most of us are afraid to die. We do not know what lies beyond it. The answer to our fear is not to avoid looking at death, but begin to deal with it by vicariously living into the death of others. As we cast about in our sorrow and fear, we can find true comfort that Someone pinned death to the mat and claimed victory over it. Life comes against the backdrop of death. The beauty of life is found in looking death straight in the eye and choosing life instead.

When my friend died a few months ago, we viewed the body that had been Pete's. It reminded me of how fragile my life is. And as I watched the workman lower that casket into the grave and as I threw dirt on the casket and as family members threw flowers into the grave, I was struck with the reality that man is dust and is like the grass of the field. Here today and gone tomorrow. Powerful imagery. Imagery that led me to remember my Creator and to walk more intimately with the One who formed me, loves me, and draws me to Himself.

I suspect cremation has its symbols too, but I think NA culture has used it as avoidance of rather than walking into death. All that said, cremation is far cheaper and it leaves more money for the wake where the real remembering begins. I realize that funerals are for the living, but I would like all of you to have to look at my dead body, then be buried in the cheapest casket made, after which you can all have a huge party and remember what a pain in the butt old Rod used to be. Especially when he got on his high horse about death and resurrection. I'm looking forward to to, in about fifty years, missing that party by a couple of days. Don't worry, I'll be doing some serious partying myself.

BTW, just for added correction, I think it was you and Steve who brought up the pagan ideas of spreading ashes to be one with nature. I brought up spreading ashes with appropriate Scripture reading and prayer. Should I stand corrected?

Rod

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From: mike
Date: Tue Apr 20 09:39:51 MST 2004 Subject: oops

Sorry. I did not mean to say you spoke against cremation. I did mean to quote you. The thougts I blogged on cremation are my opnion.

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