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From: rodhugen
Date: Mon Feb 16 17:14:29 MST 2004 Subject: Rod's strange dream

Responses
AnnKoza: Dreams are indeed strange. (2/17/04)
rodhugen: On dreams (2/17/04)
stevek: Nathan (2/17/04)
dbonilla: Rod's dream (2/18/04)
Karen: No Subject (2/18/04)
Karen: False moves? (2/18/04)
stevek: Charles (2/20/04)
eric: Rod's Dream (2/20/04)
russ: My Take (2/20/04)
keibru: The REAL Interpretation (2/26/04)
russ: Touch, and maybe some thoughts (2/19/07)
Responses (sorted by date)
russ: Touch, and maybe some thoughts (2/19/07)
keibru: The REAL Interpretation (2/26/04)
russ: My Take (2/20/04)
eric: Rod's Dream (2/20/04)
stevek: Charles (2/20/04)
Karen: False moves? (2/18/04)
Karen: No Subject (2/18/04)
dbonilla: Rod's dream (2/18/04)
stevek: Nathan (2/17/04)
rodhugen: On dreams (2/17/04)
AnnKoza: Dreams are indeed strange. (2/17/04)
Throughout my life, whenever I am being moved or when I am facing something that will create major change in my life, I always have a recurring dream. I dream this dream ten or twenty times and either someone interprets it or, after the fact, I see what I was being told. Eventually they all make sense.

Lately I have been dreaming a dream repeatedly and Eric suggested I post it here so that the community can share in interpreting what it means.

In my dream, I am living with Kathy in a community home. It is a beautiful place and we are truly enjoying ourselves. We hear a lot of fanfare outside and we all run out to see what is going on and there is a sort of parade going down the street. By the way, the front yard is an overgrown beautiful garden surrounded by a low fence covered in vines. For some reason that is important. In an open car in this parade going by, Prince Charles is waving and smiling. We cheer and clap and wave back and he has the car pull over in front of our home. He gets out and walks over to me and shakes hands and asks if he can speak to me privately. I ask him if he'd like to come in and he agrees. When we get inside we begin to talk and he tells me how sad he is because his first wife was killed and now he has remarried Camilla (sp?) and she is also dying. He is in deep sorrow and pain and he asks if I can help him. I try to comfort him but he is inconsolable. When I touch him, I feel his shame and pain and suddenly I get this great idea and I run over to my desk. In the desk is a Village CD (Rough and Uncut), but it is a new and improved high tech version. It has a DVD included with music videos and other bells and whistles that make it super cool. If I give him the CD, I know he will be healed. I hesitate though, because I realize it is our only copy and he doesn't need anything this cool. This doesn't feel selfish in my dream, it just feels right. He just needs the original CD. The plain original CD will heal him, but I don't have any in the house. I search for a bit and then remember that I have some in the trunk of my car so I tell him to wait and I run outside and up to the corner where there is a huge mall. I try to think about where I parked my car (Now there is a nightmare for you), and I can't remember. I run toward the side where I believe I parked it, but I don't see it. I'm tempted to run through the mall to the other side, but I don't dare because I might miss the car and instead I continue to run around the outside of it. I'm getting exhausted, but I have to get the CD for Prince Charles. I feel like a man who must complete the mission at any cost. When I come around the third side of the mall I see an outdoor food court with lots of people milling around. All the people are dressed in tuxedos and evening gowns. They are very friendly and are asking me if they can help me and if they can have a CD, too, As I run through them they reach out their hands toward me and I want to help them, but I just don't have the time. I tell them I'll come back for them, but first I have to help Prince Charles. I find my car and grab the CD's from the trunk and turn and run toward our group home. From a distance, I see Prince Charles get back in the car and drive away and I am so disappointed. I weep because I feel like I've let him down. I was so close to helping him, but I didn't make it in time. I turn back toward the food court and the well dressed folks are slowly walking toward me with their hands out. They are smiling and saying, "We'll take that, we need that. Please help us." This feels right and good and it is also where I wake up.

Okay, that is the dream in a nut shell. Let me first tell you that if you no longer want to be in a room alone with me, I'll understand. :-)

Second, both Reggie (my boss at Teen Challenge) and Eric (my boss at the Village :-)) have heard God say that I'll still be a part of these two places I love, but that I'll soon be moving into something else, something bigger and broader. Reggie has gone so far as to begin to train my replacement. I've also been told by numerous unrelated folks that they think God is calling me to pastor pastors and leaders. I have also been made a part of the Christian Reformed denominational Home Mission's board and have a strong sense that God has called me to be part of that particularly because the denomination is in the throes of a huge transition. I mention these last things because in my head they seem to be connected to the dream. I just don't know how or why.

Sooooo.... are there any Daniels or Josephs out there who can interpret my dream?

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From: AnnKoza
Date: Tue Feb 17 08:55:56 MST 2004 Subject: Dreams are indeed strange.

Hi Rod,
Thanks for sharing your dream. My goodness if you think after reading it I’ll be afraid to be in the same room with you, you are greatly mistaken. Obviously, you haven’t read my crazy dreams! Since you are a caring person, I think you want everyone to be happy – even people you don’t personally know like Prince Charles and (ugh) Camilla too. The frustration you had with not being able to find the Village CD (Rough and Uncut), reminds me of a dream my dad (a former Lutheran minister) shared with me years ago. He dreamt that he was on the pulpit and was to read the scriptures. Instead he could only find advertisements inside the pages of the bible. He kept turning the pages in frustration only to see ad after ad.
By the way, two nights ago my dad showed up again in my dreams. This was weird so please grant me the same grace of understanding as you asked of us when we read your dream. I was looking down at my hand and all of a sudden a bump started to grow. I wasn’t scared and it didn’t hurt. I was just fascinated by this fleshy growth. It formed into kind of another thumb. It took shape and became a miniature version of my dad’s HEAD! He was talking but I couldn’t hear him. The image of his little head on my hand is very vivid still.
I can’t end this blog here. I need to comment on the recent messages you’ve been given by unrelated folks who say they’ve heard God’s calling for you to lead pastors and leaders. Of course I was taken by surprise when I read this. From a purely selfish view, I ached to think you might be leaving some day. I haven’t heard anything from God on this matter but haven’t prayed about it either. I will pray for you.

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From: rodhugen
Date: Tue Feb 17 13:07:26 MST 2004 Subject: On dreams

Thanks Ann,

I think the next addition to the Village should be a professional dream interpreter. Your Dad's appearance does not seem strange to me. You have gone through a difficult time and I'm not surprised that he would be in your thoughts, both concious and unconcious. It is bizarre how dreams come to us and how they impact us. I hope God isn't calling me away from what I love. I have never been happier in my life than I am as a pastor at the Village and as a counselor at Teen Challenge. I have found a richness and depth in my walk with God that is unprecedented. I don't think God is ripping me away, but that He will be changing what I do and maybe my level of participation. It is silly to talk about this since nothing is happening, but that is the nature of us strange dreamers. I appreciate your prayers and will continue to remember you to the Creator often. May you find rest and peace in your sorrow and may the God of all grace give you grace and comfort as you mourn your father's death.

Rod

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From: stevek
Date: Tue Feb 17 16:14:14 MST 2004 Subject: Nathan

I don't pretend to have a gift of interpretation, but after prayer I see a different picture than what others have offered up. My overall sense is that God has you where He wants you, and where you can both give and receive, but that you may be pursuing something other than His calling out of a desire for the acclaim of man. (The title of this blog is Nathan.)
Your dream begins by pointing to the fact that God has surrounded you with beauty, community, enjoyment and fulfillment. But it is the clamor outside of that place of serenity that grabs your attention. And that clamor involves mixing with what the world holds up as important, worthy of attention, famous and rich in what the world values. So you step away from the beauty God has surrounded you with and chase after that acclaim - listen to your words - "I try", "I get this great idea", "I run", "I try", "I run", "I try"...but you also acknowledge that "If I give him the (high end) CD, I know he will be healed." You have what he needs/you have what the world needs/yet you withhold it, though it's all around you - because the tug of acclaim, and the recognition that the world holds dear continues to entice your spirit. So you run after it - until you once again reach the place where you see that your people are waiting for you. The outdoor food court/the outer court of the temple where the gentiles are allowed to worship. And they (we) extend our hands to you, both beckoning you with our desire to heal you, and asking you to share with us that which will heal. But you "run through them (us)" chasing after Princely things. Your desire for the things of self/I/me/success in the ways of the world leave you no time any longer for the community, beauty and joy God has surrounded you with. For a time. God will show you how fleeting that all is. Chasing it is exhausting. The prince once again disappears/as he (it) did once before/and God will show you that your people will step towards you again - despite having been set aside while you chased after that which lies outside the court which you have been given to both minister into, and from which to receive ministry. In 2 Corinthians 6 we're called to 'sincere love.' That is enduring/long suffering - your people's hands will not be withdrawn. God will point you back to them once the passion for that which is temporal dissipates.

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From: dbonilla
Date: Tue Feb 17 22:26:03 MST 2004 Subject: Rod's dream

Next time this dream occurs just burn Chuck a copy of the bells and whistles version of the CD. Also, if you can make the dream last a little longer you can give away those regular CDs to the folks who are begging for them. Hey why not? You've seen the movie Groundhog Day, right? Tweak the dream a little and make it mean what you want it to. Ok I'm done being facetious, I think.
How many times have you had this dream? Is the dream always the same?
To me it means serve the ordinary people around you, rather than trying to focus so hard on meeting the needs of the princes of this world. But this doesn't seem to fit you; I am not aware of any hesitance you have toward serving the little people. You came and prayed for me when I sat in The Sinner's Chair a couple months ago. That really blessed me and encouraged me in my walk with the Lord. I hope God isn't calling you away from us.

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From: Karen
Date: Wed Feb 18 14:50:53 MST 2004 Subject:

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From: Karen
Date: Wed Feb 18 15:48:56 MST 2004 Subject: False moves?

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb with these thoughts. Please do with them as you will...

"In my dream, I am living with Kathy in a community home. It is a beautiful place and we are truly enjoying ourselves."
= Representing the joy you find in your life now, I suppose (seems obvious, I guess).

"We hear a lot of fanfare outside and we all run out to see what is going on and there is a sort of parade going down the street."

A big, loud, hard-to-ignore, non-traumatic event that pulls you out of your usual routine, bringing you into contact with someone (or even several people) outside of your current routine.

"By the way, the front yard is an overgrown beautiful garden surrounded by a low fence covered in vines."

This seems to be the "fruit" of the Spirit's current work in you (and your family), including powerful connections with Villagers and Teen Challenge folks. A low fence is an aesthetic barrier, not a defensive one. It is a token boundary between yourself and the rest of the world. The fence could represent the parameters of your Self. It is interesting that Prince Charles leaves the "world" and comes within the psychological safety and beauty of the fence to speak with you.

"In an open car in this parade going by, Prince Charles is waving and smiling."

Charles strikes me as a personification of the (aging) modern age. He's a "modern" man, a strange holdover from another time, who doesn't seem to have relevance to people today. He has a "nice" life (materially speaking), but despite his celebrity, despite the parade, he is not a cultural mover-and-shaker. He seems like more of a follower, really. He seems compelled to leave a place of refuge to run off to join back in the parade. As lost as he is, he will not stand to be separated from the parade, which has become his so-called identity. He is that too-typical celebrity, with no tangible power to change the public world, and incapable of managing even his private life well. He reminds me of the "rich young ruler" Jesus had that sad interaction with.

He might represent a specific person, someone you know of, but don't know personally or don't know intimately. (An executive of a company you used to work for? A pastor who's losing touch with his larger congregation?) He's someone with a big discrepancy between the public persona and the private self, who doesn't know how to walk away from the pomp and circumstance and just be authentic.

"We cheer and clap and wave back and he has the car pull over in front of our home. He gets out and walks over to me and shakes hands and asks if he can speak to me privately. I ask him if he'd like to come in and he agrees. When we get inside we begin to talk and he tells me how sad he is because his first wife was killed and now he has remarried Camilla (sp?) and she is also dying. He is in deep sorrow and pain and he asks if I can help him. I try to comfort him but he is inconsolable. When I touch him, I feel his shame and pain and suddenly I get this great idea and I run over to my desk. In the desk is a Village CD (Rough and Uncut), but it is a new and improved high tech version. It has a DVD included with music videos and other bells and whistles that make it super cool. If I give him the CD, I know he will be healed. I hesitate though, because I realize it is our only copy and he doesn't need anything this cool. This doesn't feel selfish in my dream, it just feels right. He just needs the original CD. The plain original CD will heal him, but I don't have any in the house."

Hmm, this seems to be about the modernist thing, that need to offer concrete objects, specific and concise answers. That (admirable) drive to fix what is broken. Maybe you are (or will be) tempted to think that you'll figure out a better way to help people, later on. Maybe you are (or will be) tempted to think that you might have forgotten where you put the answer to their pain. Maybe you're tempted to think that going off to look for that "answer," that "fix" to the problem is what you need to do, that it's worth the price of putting people/relationships on hold.

"I search for a bit and then remember that I have some in the trunk of my car so I tell him to wait and I run outside and up to the corner where there is a huge mall. I try to think about where I parked my car (Now there is a nightmare for you), and I can't remember. I run toward the side where I believe I parked it, but I don't see it. I'm tempted to run through the mall to the other side, but I don't dare because I might miss the car and instead I continue to run around the outside of it. I'm getting exhausted, but I have to get the CD for Prince Charles. I feel like a man who must complete the mission at any cost."

You'll burn yourself out looking for that thing... Are you sure it's what Charles needs? It's what the mall-people think they need, but I don't think it's what Charles (the person on your heart) needs.

"When I come around the third side of the mall I see an outdoor food court with lots of people milling around. All the people are dressed in tuxedos and evening gowns. They are very friendly and are asking me if they can help me and if they can have a CD, too, As I run through them they reach out their hands toward me and I want to help them, but I just don't have the time. I tell them I'll come back for them, but first I have to help Prince Charles. I find my car and grab the CD's from the trunk and turn and run toward our group home. From a distance, I see Prince Charles get back in the car and drive away and I am so disappointed. I weep because I feel like I've let him down. I was so close to helping him, but I didn't make it in time.

The mall = mainstream American culture? Mainstream American Christian culture? It seems that so much of American Christianity has turned into a marketing thing, a how-can-we-sell-Christianity enterprise. Steve's mentioning the outer temple court is an interesting connection. You're on a desperate spiritual quest, and the materialistic mall ("stuff") is getting in your way...you're afraid to run through it, though! You're desperately looking for your car...it could be a symbol of freedom, symbol of a way of getting where you want to go. What does "car" mean to you, Rod? For many guys, it seems to be an external symbol of their success, their pseudo-identity. Do you relate to that? It's like your true self is in the house, the garden, and you're looking for where you might have forgotten where you left it....(???)

The well-dressed mall people, by extension, seem to be mainstream American Christians. Maybe they're the "first run" of the banquet invitees (like I suggested the other night)... they're already in black tie, when they should be wearing sweats or something... They're hanging out in the wrong place, wrong time, and they don't seem to know how to fit in appropriately with their environment. :-)

"I turn back toward the food court and the well dressed folks are slowly walking toward me with their hands out. They are smiling and saying, 'We'll take that, we need that. Please help us.' This feels right and good and it is also where I wake up."

The well-dressed folks are making me think of those zombie cartoons (!?!) Anway, they seem to be good at getting your attention, at making you feel comfortable and forgetting your pain over "Charles" (whoever he happens to be). I'm not sure I trust those well-dressed folks.

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From: stevek
Date: Fri Feb 20 13:36:56 MST 2004 Subject: Charles

Karen's reference to the rich young ruler kept resonating within me - so I looked it up (Luke 18:18 and following) and these thoughts are what resulted.
First - the rich young ruler asked a question which didn't make any sense. I'd never seen it before, but in light of Rod's dream, it's clear to me now that what he asked may bear on both what Karen and I seemed to sense from the dream. His question was "what must I DO in order to INHERIT eternal life?" We don't 'DO' anything to get that which is our 'INHERITANCE.' We receive it by virtue of who we are. In this case, we receive eternal life by virtue of who we are in Christ. Religion says "I'll do this and become righteous." God says "I make you righteous through Christ." Karen's right - Charles is the rich young ruler. But Rod is also the rich young ruler. And I am the rich young ruler. We are Charles/Rod is Charles/we try to 'do' when what we're called to is belief. Is Charlie C. Jones where you get your reward? Is 'pastoring pastors?' We don't need to prove/demonstrate our credentials to anybody - we have none except who we are in Christ. The rich young ruler sought the acclaim of man through the materialism he had accumulated. That's chasing after being the CFO of a company. Might that also be pastoring those whose 'religious credentials' exceed our own in order to show that we're legitimately a part of the called? The high end CD was one-of-a-kind - the only one you had. It's Christ, not the other things which may masquerade as attractive and seemingly necessary to achieve in the kingdom. Your reward comes from who you are in Christ, and acting on that - not on what others have put on you as false 'self's' necessary for acceptance. Who you are is who God sees, not who you see, or who others expect you to be. Do you do that to us, too? We are the people you see dressed nicely in the outer court. But Karen's right - we should be dressed in something other than black tie. That's not us/would you feel better in front of Charles (or the pastors whose acceptance you feel you may need) if we did more closely fit 'the mold?' We don't. But neither does Charles/you/me/those pastors - that's all phony. We are all the rich young ruler, running around being somebody other than who God sees in an effort to become what other Charles' expect us to be. It's fake. God's view of us is all that is real. We are who we are in Christ. That is what you're surrounded with before you dash out through the gate and chase after the rest. Your dream is our dream to the extent that you/we dash out that gate and run towards the acclaim of man, and away from the simple beauty with which the Lord has surrounded us. He accepts us within that fenced in beauty - He is apart from us when we become Charles. You've nothing to prove. That is, you do not need to prove to the religious community that you fit in/nor do you possess anything with which to prove your value - other than what Christ is doing through you. That occurs within the fenced yard - the field in which you minister, where the beauty exists - not outside where you are Charles.

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From: eric
Date: Fri Feb 20 15:05:22 MST 2004 Subject: Rod's Dream

I've already given Rod my interpretation of his dream, but I thought I'd offer my two cents on this thread. When interpreting someone's dream, I think it is important to listen to their heart and consider what God is already doing in their life. Rod has given up a lot to be a Pastor at the Village. He is certainly not in it for the money. I am paid more than he is and that does not bother him. Rod is certainly not in ministry at the Village because he wanted people to recognize his great accomplishments. He is a co-pastor of a church of 44 adults and 20 kids. If I remember correctly, he has closed three churches - not a stellar record. I have heard Rod say often that the Village is way out of his comfort zone. When people at the CRC ask Rod how he planted the Village, or if he could help them with their church - he often points to me "yikes."

In the last two months God has been telling me that Rod was going to be redefining his ministry and expanding it into new places. I also felt like God was telling me that I needed to ready for these changes and encourage Rod to take them without any reservations. Recently the CRC has requested Rod's help with their home mission’s board. Also, young CRC pastor are reaching out to Rod for help. While all of this is taking place, Reggie, Rod's other boss, has felt like God was calling Rod to new and different place in ministry. If you take all of this into account, then Rod's dream makes sense - o.k., not completely.

Here is the abridged version of my interpretation:

Community house = the Village
Original Village CD = the essence of the Village. The Love and strength of the Village
The Fancy CD = who we might become - our dream without our identity.
Prince Charles = People in the world and some in the Village
The Village CD in the Trunk of the Car = This could be Rod's propensity to run out of Village cds and cards and my inability to produce them as fast as he gives them away. Or it could represent the Village's inability to minister to everyone.
Rod's Unwillingness to Go through the Mall = I think the mall and Rod's lost car and his exhaustion represent the daunting task of planting a church and understanding how to do it. So much of being a missional pastor is pushing your church into the world, but also knowing how to navigate it for the community. Rod and I have often talked about the brutal sexuality of Malls.
The People in the Food Court = they represent the CRC. The CRC wants to help us, but they also want to experience us.

I think God is telling Rod to remember and protect the core of the Village as he takes on new responsibilities. I also think He is telling Rod not to forget the world . . . not to forget the shame and pain of those he is ministering to. I have many other ideas, but most important, I see this dream as an encouragement from God to keep moving forward . . .

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From: russ
Date: Fri Feb 20 16:33:02 MST 2004 Subject: My Take

I have two things to offer here. First, I want to say that my heart tells me that Karen's interpretation has a lot that is true. I also have my own interpretation, which I have hesitated to offer. My heart also tells me that my idea is something that needs to be said.

Oddly, our interpretations differ in some noteworthy ways. Go figure. It seems my heart is not logical.

Finally, I acknowledge that my interpretation lines up with some of my hobby horses. Does that mean I'm biased, or that God has been laying this on my heart for a long time? I don't really know.

Anyhow...

What really strikes me about the dream is that you, Rod, are repeatedly failing to minister to the people in front of you because you feel some obligation to do something else. I am also struck by the fact that you are unwilling to give your best to Prince Charles, who "doesn't need anything this cool."

Prince Charles
My interpretation is that Prince Charles stands for the more traditional church people & organizations - the CRC, Bethel, and maybe others. Seemingly, these people "have it together" and need nothing from us, yet in truth they are "inconsolable. When you touch them, you feel their shame and pain." You know that you have something to offer them.

The DVD
The DVD represents that which is the newest, most cutting edge, most creative, and most exciting about The Village. I believe that you were supposed to give the DVD to Prince Charles. You are to offer that which is most precious to those who "don't need anything this cool."

Because you go looking for the CD (symbolic of giving the old church "just enough" or "something they'll understand"), you fail both to minister to Prince Charles and to the people in the Mall.

People in the Mall
The people in the Mall are those who we normally think The Village is called to minister to. (I don't understand the significance of the tuxedos & evening gowns.) There is a great multitude looking for your help, but you are too busy to help them at the moment.

At the end of the dream, they approach you, happy for just a CD. They do not demand a DVD; apparently, in God's plan, even a CD is enough to help them.

Meaning
I believe that this means that you should offer whatever is available to whomever enters your life. You should not hesitate to give the DVD (your most precious elements of the Village) to Prince Charles (the conventional church), but you should do it when they are ready to be "healed." (Is healing here literal...or a metaphor for something else?) Likewise, you should offer what you have, even if it's just a CD (something inadequate and still in process) to people in the Mall (the postmodern world).

In the dream, you are exhausted running around, and have little chance to minister to anyone. Instead, you should be at peace, offering in the moment whatever God provides to whomever God puts in your life.

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From: russ
Date: Mon Feb 19 13:20:27 EST 2007 Subject: Touch, and maybe some thoughts

I looked this up just so I could touch it and bring it up to the top, but then when I re-read it, I had a number of thoughts.

Please note that I don't have great confidence in anything I'm about to say, these are just thoughts, not "an Interpretation."

When I read it this time, it seemed clear (likely?) to me that Prince Charles is the leadership of the CRC. He represents power and influence. His two wives are the transitioning CRC...it is not what it used to be; it is now made up of different types of people (such as the many Hispanics that apparently are now part); yet even what it is is now dying. Rod feels this pain deeply.

The Village CD, I think, represents the essence of what the Village is; it includes things like our values, worship styles, and others. I think that the DVD represents a more advanced, refined version of that. I think it's very interesting (though perhaps just a coincidence) that Eric just finished the first Village DVD.

I have always had trouble with the idea that Rod doesn't offer the DVD to Prince Charles, but he says that it "feels right" in the dream, so I'm going to skip that and move on.

Emily Mc has said that she thinks that well-dressed people in the mall are the CRC, but I'm not sure. They seem like people who come from the conventional world (probably the conventional church) who want what Rod and the Village have to offer. But this idea does make some sense, read on below...

Then we hit the crucial part: Rod finds what Prince Charles needs, but Prince Charles leaves before he can receive it. I think that this means that Rod will not change the CRC leadership in the way that he longs to. At first, I thought it meant that Rod would not be offerred the job; I am now starting to think that it means that Rod will be offerred the job, he will try, but "he won't make it in time." If I had to guess, I think this means that Rod will go to Grand Rapids for a while, and will come back "feeling like he let them down."

But there is hope. Because when Rod returns (or perhaps simply when the time in Grand Rapids is over, it's not clear to me that me must come back to the Village) he will find a great cloud of well-dressed people "walking toward him with their hands out. They are smiling and saying, 'We'll take that, we need that. Please help us.' This will feel right and good." Perhaps Emily Mc is right, and the well-dressed people from the mall are the body members of the CRC, who Rod is able to help, even though the leadership didn't change.

Russ

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Trinity Jan2014 (1/16/14)
Skeptic Chickens :
No Condemnation (7/29/13)
Karen and Friends :
Breastplate May 5 (5/10/13)

sermons (upload)
Eric,Ron Layman: The Disciplines RL (3/6/14)
Eric: Habakkuk Part One (1/16/14)
Eric: Noah's Ark (9/27/13)
Eric: The Fall (9/13/13)
Rod: Creation (9/13/13)

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