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From: eric
Date: Tue Nov 29 08:24:54 MST 2005 Subject: Ephesians 6 discussion

Responses
ryan: a few rambling thoughts (11/29/05)
Karen: You call that rambling? ;-) (11/30/05)
Suki: Prayer of St Francis (11/30/05)
Responses (sorted by date)
Suki: Prayer of St Francis (11/30/05)
Karen: You call that rambling? ;-) (11/30/05)
ryan: a few rambling thoughts (11/29/05)
Ephesians 6

1Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2"Honor your father and mother"—which is the first commandment with a promise— 3"that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth." 4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

1) Obey – Listen to find out what they have to say about things because it is “right”, or better translated –“the divine thing to do.
2) My favorite part of this section is – Fathers, do not exasperate your children. Don’t put your children in situations that are going to force them to defend themselves against you.
3) Question: Is it still a Father’s primary responsibility to train his children. What does that look like in the 21st century?
Slaves and Masters
5Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, 8because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.

9And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

1) Who are the slaves of the 21st century?

2) Are you a master or a Slave?

3) Americans consume 25% of the world’s resources. Yet, we are a small percentage of the world’s population. This means that most of the world works to provide for our needs and wants. Does this, at some level, make them our slaves? How do we treat them?

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From: ryan
Date: Tue Nov 29 16:16:32 MST 2005 Subject: a few rambling thoughts

:: parents and children ::

My experience is that today’s fathers are most often absent or detached, or when not absent, exasperatingly involved. I think it’s rare for modern fathers to train their children in how to be effective men and women, and the consequence of that is a belief among our generation that we are on our own. I’m left wondering if modern fathers don’t feel confident themselves in what it means to be a man, and consequently either 1) absolve themselves of the responsibility of teaching their children, or 2) drum up a false confidence in their manhood so they can teach something to their children, but likely as not something wicked or false. Or worst of all, what if fathers just don’t care enough to learn what their children need, and how they might speak into their children’s lives? Are they merely committed to their own interests? Or slaves to their own fears of being exposed as incompetent?

I think now that training one’s children, whether by fathers or mothers, is a huge and very necessary responsibility. I say that because I feel like my father in many ways neglected that responsibility, and not only have I suffered for it, but many many others have in the way I treated them poorly.

My experience of fathers suggests that teaching children is a responsibility happily ceded to women and with great relief. Fathers briefly materialize in the lives of their children to add a little weight or scare factor to the mothers’ discipline. They remain distant and scary, unimpactable, unknowable. This has really impacted my view of God, as a far-away, mysterious Father who ultimately doesn’t really care about me unless it is convenient or in His best interest. Hardly the image that Jesus portrayed.

I remember hearing as a kid, “Monkey see, monkey do”. I see how, though I don't feel my earthly father actively participated in training me as a human being, I learned from him nonetheless. I have to make conscious, intentional choices to live differently: to stand up for my wife when he failed to stand up for his, to stand up for what is right when he opted to stay uninvolved, to take risks when he chose the path of safety, to allow others to impact me when he remained hardened, to be mindful of others when he chose to pursue his own interests.

I think about the Prayer of St. Francis, which we sing from time to time. Those are good things for fathers to make a part of themselves and demonstrate to their children: loving a greater value than being loved; understanding a greater value than being understood; better to be the one to sow love, peace, and reconciliation than hate, strife, and division; it is in pardoning that we are born to eternity. I can’t remember all the lyrics, maybe someone can post them in their entirety... or a link to the mp3...

:: slaves and masters ::

I think we are all slaves in some regard. Our culture is one of oppressive servitude, both to ourselves and to those in other cultures who provide for our wants. I often wonder what it means to be truly free. We understand freedom often in terms of economics and political process, but are we truly free?

I am a slave to my lifestyle. I choose to serve the gods of eating out, owning a mortgaged house, owning two cars, shopping for food at a grocery store, paying for occasional entertainment, living in an urban community. I exchange my free time for paid servitude at an employer. I am “free” to leave at any time, but if I do, I must renounce my economic idols and live outside of society—either as a homeless person or unemployed in a trashy trailer on the edges of social acceptability.

I opt out of political processes because I mostly feel that the political choices are irrelevant or meaningless, or I feel powerless to effect meaningful change in those cases where the political choices are relevant. Do not slaves also have such feelings of impotence and insignificance?

I think Eric’s question challenging us to think about our impact on the world—consuming a quarter of the world’s resources—is interesting. Are we indeed slaves to our economic way of life? In our servitude to material comforts and conveniences, are we placing other cultures in bondage to us?

I think Paul’s point with this passage is really cool. He says that it doesn’t really matter who is slave and who is master in God’s eyes. When God looks at us, the playing field is totally level, he is Master over all, and we are His slaves.

That truth makes me wonder what the heck slavery is all about anyway. Being a slave to the world is no fun at all, it is sheer oppression. But being a slave to God rocks. Most of the time. Being a slave to God brings a feeling of potence and significance, it means that we are fearfully and wonderfully made and that we can have an impact in the world for good. It means that the masters of this world—global economics, social acceptability, materialism, oppression—no longer have real power over us.

Here’s a thought: If God as our divine Master has made us His slaves, and we are no longer to walk this earth as slaves to it, how are we to view our commitment to the way of life we live as we discover how oppressive it is to both ourselves and to others? What does it look like to begin to walk in freedom in the midst of oppression?

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From: Karen
Date: Tue Nov 29 17:11:58 MST 2005 Subject: You call that rambling? ;-)

Dude, you should look at some middle school writing--or some of my OWN writing--if you call that rambling! You've got some great insights here. You already said a lot of what I would have wanted to say, if I'd gotten there first. But I'll comment more when I have the time--later this week--sometime?

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From: Suki
Date: Wed Nov 30 14:36:41 MST 2005 Subject: Prayer of St Francis

Here are the lyrics to the song Prayer of St. Francis by Brad Currah:
Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace –
Where there is hate, let me show love;
Where there is injury, let pardon be sown by me;
Where there is doubt, let me sow faith.
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
To be loved as to love for Thee.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned by Thee.
And in dying that we are born to eternity.

Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace –
Where there is despair, let me sow hope;
Where there is sadness, let joy be sown by me;
Where there is dark, let me sow light.
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
To be consoled as to console to Thee,
Understood as to understand.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned by Thee.
And in dying that we are born to eternity.

And also the words of the original prayerpoem, from which the song was written:
Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.
O, Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

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