Villagersonline : blogs : dbonilla : confession
villagersonline
A Community Tunneling Protocol
The Village meets at 5pm Sundays
1926 N. Cloverland Ave. map

Links
(edit) The Village Cancer Relief Fund;


From: dbonilla
Date: Tue Jan 31 22:39:23 MST 2006 Subject: confession

Responses
Karen: Word nerd speaks (2/1/06)
emily: sin? (2/1/06)
eric: C (2/2/06)
emily: and then? (2/2/06)
Karen: "Coming out" (2/2/06)
Karen: Speaking up, or not (2/2/06)
Suki: God's work (2/3/06)
dbonilla: comforting labels (2/14/06)
Suki: ? (2/16/06)
rodhugen: Oooh, oooh, pick me! (2/16/06)
Responses (sorted by date)
rodhugen: Oooh, oooh, pick me! (2/16/06)
Suki: ? (2/16/06)
dbonilla: comforting labels (2/14/06)
Suki: God's work (2/3/06)
Karen: Speaking up, or not (2/2/06)
Karen: "Coming out" (2/2/06)
emily: and then? (2/2/06)
eric: C (2/2/06)
emily: sin? (2/1/06)
Karen: Word nerd speaks (2/1/06)
Regarding last Sunday's message, I thought it odd that we would rejoice or feel enthusiastic about confessing sin, per se. It is the promise behind confession that gives peace and joy, ie, that forgiveness follows. Another thing that didn't feel right was when our identity as sinners was emphasized. I thought we were to identify ourselves as being in Christ. I understand that it is in the context of John's baptism message but still felt a little confused. I am in no way denying that I commit sin. Sorry about waiting till now to bring this up, but I'm a little timid when it comes to sharing my thoughts during the message. (A confession of sin.)

Edit this blog
Write a response Email the author



From: Karen
Date: Wed Feb 1 10:40:50 MST 2006 Subject: Word nerd speaks

The confession in the context of John the Baptizer was as in, a "confession of faith." Yes, I do believe. I still believe. Hey, I really want to believe; help me to overcome my disbelief!

Our word "confess" comes from the Latin word for "acknowledge." I assume the Greek word used in Matthew 3 could go either way...positive term (acknowledgement of truth) or negative term (acknowledgement of sin). But I have an idea that to acknowledge your sin with enthusiasm means to not equivocate. In other words, you totally own it. And then you totally disown it!

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: emily
Date: Wed Feb 1 13:44:21 MST 2006 Subject: sin?

Dennis, I'm with you in feeling wrong about our identity as sinners taking center stage. If God is just interested in our levels of sin & confession as the main show then Adam and Eve had nothing really interesting to offer before they sinned and needed to confess. It reminds me of one of your quote uploads that comes up now and then that always makes me laugh "If we're just here to help others, then what are the others here for?" Sometimes I think we end up focusing so much on the "jouney" that we forget where we're going.

And what makes you think being timid with speaking up in the service is a sin?

Emily.

Edit this response
Write a response



From: eric
Date: Wed Feb 1 17:29:04 MST 2006 Subject: C

O.k. yes our identity is in Christ, but confession is an acknowledgment of one state and a profess of another. The word used to describe what people were offering to John the Baptist could be described as a joyful acknowledgment that what John was saying about them was true. They were living a sinful life, and they were saying - yes - you are right! I'm that way and I’m ready to live in repentance . . . the way of the coming King.

I think, Emily, that God longs for us to just say . . . yep, I'm a sinner, a sinner with unclean lips, and I need your grace. I want to live in your way. I want to have relationship with you. I also think that most Christians have a hard time acknowledging out loud that they sin in a way that hinders relationship with God.

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: emily
Date: Thu Feb 2 11:46:16 MST 2006 Subject: and then?

I agree that God wants us to acknowledge the truth about ourselves. He's not content with a pretend relationship and that's what has to happen if you deny truth about yourself. You can't offer the real you - and really, we don't have much else to offer God (OK nothing else). But what I wonder about is the "culture of sin confession" that seems to rise up as people try to motivate themselves in to confessing sin. They know they don't like to admit their sin but they love God and want to serve him. So calling everything a sin and then confessing it is a good way to have a concrete feeling that you are doing that thing you are afraid you won't do. A feeling of security is achieved when one thinks "I know I'm not one of those "non-confessing" types because I just finished admitting something".

But - to switch to the other topic - being joyful about being a sinner. I was really struck by how it was so likely that they were really joyful to admit being sinners. I'm not sure about all the historical details but people being baptised by John - were these the same people trying to be good pharisees? Or being judged by ruling pharisees? If the people really had a desire to get it right with their God then it must have been really frustrating to be stuck in the pharisee system. It had to have been obvious to any honest person that the rules were impossible to follow and lead to being a failure over and over. Except for a few powerful people who were obssesive enough to pull it off. And did you really admire those people and want to be like them or did you find them unpleasant?

As a modern kid raised in the church I think I can identify. I unconsiously picked up all these things you are supposed to do or say that means you love God. Things like certain ways of dressing, how many church functions you attend per week, whether you have a "life verse" or not, feeling a sense of emotion when certain tear-jerker stories are told from the Bible even though you heard them 200 times already, etc. etc

One of the things I appreciate about the Village is the tendency to crush the molds in favor of honestly seeking the truth about God. The mold might have been formed by a person honestly following God. But if you try to conform to the mold instead of just learning from it then you are just a print - not an original painting.

There is amazing freedom in being able to say - you know - I am just a sinner -I suck on a regular basis but God still wants to come to me and teach me to know him. I don't get written off because I can't seem to follow the rules. Or worse, I CAN follow the rules and it leaves me feeling empty.

The story of John the Baptist and all those people coming to be baptized makes more sense to me now. And that's another reason I appreciate the Village - people speak from the heart and whether I agree or disagree it makes me think. In a setting where everything is carefully calculated not to offend anyone I have little or no interest. Its just words coming from a material body. No spirit is offered.

EmilyMc.

Edit this response
Write a response



From: Karen
Date: Thu Feb 2 14:18:17 MST 2006 Subject: "Coming out"

Coming out (confession) versus self-flagellation (beating yourself up), a big difference, I think. Yes, I agree that repeatedly beating yourself up is definitely not what the Good News is about. But you can create your own false feeling of holiness by continuing to do it... A weird type of self-righteousness there. I'm thinking of the scene in "The Holy Grail" where the monks are chanting in Latin and smacking themselves with boards.

I like what you said, Emily, about confession-joy being found in the relief of no longer pretending. That's what I was getting at by "owning it, and then disowning it." There is a freedom when you're found out (to speak) and then given grace to move on.

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: Karen
Date: Thu Feb 2 14:28:23 MST 2006 Subject: Speaking up, or not

Yeah, as a teacher, I shudder to think that someone out there might be thinking, "speaking up in a large group = holiness, being quiet in large group = sinfulness." Huh?

Did you have a strong sense from God at the time that you were supposed to speak? Otherwise, why did you think you were sinning? Feeling external pressure or internal pressure, or feeling conflicted about something...or wishing after the fact that you'd done/said something...none of them are necessarily indicators of sin. Sometimes--probably usually--they're just indicators of being alive. (Don't feel pressure to actually answer these above questions...it's just what I'm thinking in response to your "it's a sin" comment, Dennis.)

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: Suki
Date: Fri Feb 3 09:45:28 MST 2006 Subject: God's work

Karen’s idea resonated with me – that there’s a difference between confession and condemnation.
I grew up in a church culture where sin was talked about a lot, but nobody said what it was. So I would try to confess, but I figured that if I hadn’t lied to anyone that day, and hadn’t done the few other things I knew were “bad” (Killed anyone? Nope. Check.), then I was an okay person. Still had a nagging sense that something was wrong, though. I just couldn’t confess enough to make that feeling go away. So I tried general confessions, specific confessions. Maybe I was missing something. Maybe I had performed the unforgivable sin! What was the unforgivable sin? So little information available to my 10-year-old world. There was no way to get it right.
Imagine my relief as an adolescent, then, when someone told me that God not only loved me in the cosmic sense, but also had great affection for me as a person. Thought I was the icing on the cake. The gnawing feeling had been the result of a belief I had held that he was distant, sober, unamused, angry. Growing into a new belief redeemed my experience of God from one of fear into one of excitement.
At that point, I was also relieved to learn that sin can be anything we do. It’s not just the big bad ten, but it can be all the stuff that looks good but is done for the wrong reasons. That made so much more sense to me.
At that point, of course, I went into a flurry of thinking that everything I did was sinful, that I couldn’t ever have the right motives, that I would need a complete personality overhaul (which I then attempted to accomplish). But this was also based on a continuing attempt to get it right and thereby please a God who I still wasn’t quite sure wasn’t scary.

So what I’ve been thinking lately is that we may have sin issues (for lack of a better term) on multiple fronts. And God’s not stressed about that. He’s faithful to show us, if we’re willing to listen, the specific stuff He’s inviting us out of and into. And confession is the place where we accept His invitation. We say, “Yeah… I’ve been trying to do that on my own, apart from You. I’m not sure if I’m even capable of doing differently. Will you transform me?” Or something like that. Suppose it depends on the specific situation.

Anyway, there’s no getting it right, or even attempting. It was only natural that we would formerly be sinning. Now that we are coming to believe, it’s also only natural that we would be overflowing with goodness and peace. We’re in a transition. In the places where we’re still stuck in the old path, we confess and ask God to continue His work of transformation. There may be grief or joy in this exchange, but if it’s despair and self-hatred, then we’re not confessing and believing so much as we’re committing to get it right on our own.

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: dbonilla
Date: Tue Feb 14 15:39:25 MST 2006 Subject: comforting labels

I am like God's taxonomist Adam who liked naming animals because God made him like that. So I label it sin because I like the comfort of that box I put myself in. It gives me a sense of belonging. Hehe.

If I was afraid (timid was a convenient euphemism to hide behind) of sharing my thoughts in general, then sinfulness would ring truer. It's more the group sharing that's frightening. But having now this chance to think about my life a bit I'm seeing how easy it is for me and how quick I am to put myself into that box. So I guess I wasn't just trying to be funny. Like I broadened the area of the box to include sharing in general and not just speaking in a church service. Comfort of sharing thoughts on a popular Village theme and trying to please were also motivations in writing what I did.

Having blogged here today gives me joy and hope for breaking out of the box and a reminder that I'm in a very real sense already out. It is for freedom--not for restricting in containers or labeling--that Christ set me free! Indeed, thank God that the main show is not level of sin & confession. I want to see the forest and not just the trees. I want to see where I'm going!

But the capacity for self-deceit and misunderstanding by others is such that I feel the need to qualify my statements. Repentance is a lifetime process. It's not that I stay in confession mode for the next five years and then move on through the repentance phase to sanctification, each in their God-given time periods, and then to glorification. Two or more of these can happen simultaneously, including glimpses and dreams of the latter. It is a wonderful gift to be able to occasionally take a break, open our eyes and see how far we've come along the way. I'm a work in process. Like the Bill Gothard badge used to say, PBPWMGINFWMY!

From: emilyDate: Wed Feb 1 13:44:21 MST 2006
Subject: sin?
Dennis, I'm with you in feeling wrong about our identity as sinners taking center stage. If God is just interested in our levels of sin & confession as the main show then Adam and Eve had nothing really interesting to offer before they sinned and needed to confess. It reminds me of one of your quote uploads that comes up now and then that always makes me laugh "If we're just here to help others, then what are the others here for?" Sometimes I think we end up focusing so much on the "jouney" that we forget where we're going.
And what makes you think being timid with speaking up in the service is a sin?

Emily.

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: Suki
Date: Thu Feb 16 12:31:01 MST 2006 Subject: ?

I feel like I should just nod & smile, because I ought to know what this means. But I'll just throw the question out there. What is the longhand for PBPWMGINFWMY?
Thanks.

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author



From: rodhugen
Date: Thu Feb 16 15:56:05 MST 2006 Subject: Oooh, oooh, pick me!

Please be patient with me, God isn't finished with me yet.

Edit this response
Write a response Email the author


Write a blog
Latest Updates

blogs (upload)
eric: Parenting thoughts (8/11/14)
sunnygirl7d: Reuben fishing blog (1 resp) (8/8/14)
samantha: My new blog (8/11/14)
eric: New Website (8/7/14)
dbonilla: Annie Moses Band (3/14/14)
Suki: Ash Wednesday (3/5/14)
andrea: Good news update! (1 resp) (2/3/14)
Carena: More moving help (2/1/14)
Carena: A Friend in Need (3 resp) (1/25/14)
em: Tell me how I can pray (1/24/14)
andrea: Need for Volunteers-Foster Car... (1/19/14)
andrea: suffering (1/7/14)
rodhugen: Two quotes (2 resp) (1/3/14)
cwill: Please pray (2 resp) (1/26/24)
Carena: Polaroid Camera (12/23/13)

pictures (upload)
Suki: Vespers Dec 2012 (1/26/24)
eric: Ordination (3/16/14)
Suki: Soup Supper 2012 (3/17/14)
eric: Belonging 2012 (1/7/14)
eric: sabbath (3/16/14)

bios (upload)
Mike_Wise (1/16/13)
james (11/14/12)
clrclady (1/28/12)
SPark (11/27/11)
benjipark (12/2/10)

music (upload)
Frosted Flakes :
Everywhere j2014 (1/16/14)
Frosted Flakes :
New Found Hope J2014 (1/16/14)
Frosted Fla es :
Trinity Jan2014 (1/16/14)
Skeptic Chickens :
No Condemnation (7/29/13)
Karen and Friends :
Breastplate May 5 (5/10/13)

sermons (upload)
Eric,Ron Layman: The Disciplines RL (3/6/14)
Eric: Habakkuk Part One (1/16/14)
Eric: Noah's Ark (9/27/13)
Eric: The Fall (9/13/13)
Rod: Creation (9/13/13)

Villagersonline.com 2010
Contact Us
(edit) Site Meter
Free Search Engine Submission
Free Search Engine Submission

"Best Viewed at 1024x768 under the light of the full moon in July while Mercury is in Leo
and six pigmy marmosets do the lambada behind you singing Kumbaya" -- User Friendly