Villagersonline : blogs : blksheep67 : GIVING UNITS
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From: blksheep67
Date: Tue Jun 27 15:42:44 MST 2006 Subject: GIVING UNITS

Responses
Boojeee: giving (6/27/06)
rodhugen: Oops... (6/28/06)
blksheep67: response to responses (6/30/06)
ryan: why so touchy? (6/30/06)
KeithB: don't get me started... (6/29/06)
Patricia: um, yes, ... (6/29/06)
Karen: Semantics, etc. (7/2/06)
Responses (sorted by date)
Karen: Semantics, etc. (7/2/06)
ryan: why so touchy? (6/30/06)
blksheep67: response to responses (6/30/06)
Patricia: um, yes, ... (6/29/06)
KeithB: don't get me started... (6/29/06)
rodhugen: Oops... (6/28/06)
Boojeee: giving (6/27/06)
Giving Units?!?!!
What kind of church growth crap phrase is that? Where ever you dug it up go and bury it deeper so no one can find it. Now on to my further vexation.
I attended the Village before the cost of gas and upkeep on my car became too much for me but I do sometimes visit the Village website. I was greatly irritated by what was written as what God was allegededly telling the church community. In section 4e under the plan there is a reference to "giving units" giving $50 more than what they are currently giving.
If you see an individual or family as a "giving unit" then the Village should pack up its things and stop pretending that it's a church community because it's not. That's a term a corporation or business might use to motivate its workers to squeeze more money out of people? Can you see Jesus with the disciples around him telling them to get 50 more shekels out of the "giving units" that they are ministering to? It comes to this: Do you really care about the people in the body or do you care about their disposable income which they can give so you can have a building. The early church didn't have buildings and if that was good enough for them then it should be good enough for you.
In my opinion you should remain near the UA as a witness to university and college students.
Also while I'm on my stump and as a person who lives below the poverty level and was without a car for 10 years there is an alarming trend where church buildings are off the busline. Large churches like in Tucson such as Casas Adobes, 1st Evangelical Free, Catalina Foothills Presbyterian, Pantano Christian, Calvary Chapel (all of them), and others are not on the busline where the poor can reach them. Perhaps in the upper class' eyes the poor may be viewed as part of the unwashed masses but we matter to God.
In David Dickerson's Potluck Hall of Fame he lists things that Catholic Churches can learn from Protestant Churches and Protestant Churches can learn from Catholic Churches. Here is another one I've noticed: Catholic Churches tend to be on the busline. God loves all but he is especially concerned about the poor. Perhaps it's because they aren't so consumed by riches and materialism. When Christ was born a heavenly host announced it to some of the poorest of the poor - shepherds. In fact Christ was laying in a feeding trough. If a mother were to do that today Child Protective Services would take the child away and have the parents charged.
Going back to the church building idea have you considered having church assemblies through different cells in house churches? Who says that the one church building model is the only way to go?
And by the way burn all those church growth books with the definitions – they’re good for manure but not much else.

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From: Boojeee
Date: Tue Jun 27 16:53:25 MST 2006 Subject: giving

Our pastor basically said, "I'm taking a pay cut [even though he already makes less than most of us]; could you all work to give $50 more a month because we have a building that I think will be good for us and is close to within our financial grasp." This is clearly not your average church growth dribble. To be asked to do something that our pastors are already doing, seems fair, uncorporate and downright organic to me. As to the "giving unit" terminology, was pretty tongue-in-cheek in a community where money is certainly not the point and pretty much all discussions of money are awkward even when they are necessary as this one is. Anyways, the building is on a bus line in case you were wondering.

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From: rodhugen
Date: Wed Jun 28 11:17:39 MST 2006 Subject: Oops...

So, having heard that what was said was said tongue in cheek and having heard that the building we are considering is on the bus line and having heard that Eric has never read a church growth book and trusting that a building owned by Christ followers at the Village would be highly utilized to serve the community and thus Jesus - perhaps the words, "I'm sorry, Eric, that I junped to conclusions that slurred your good name. If what I had said had been based on fact I should have come to you privately and discussed my concerns. By not having done that, I have hurt you. By the way, Eric, I have heard of your generosity and kindness. I have heard how you take people who are poor and broken into your home and have given them a place to stay and food to eat. I have heard that you often open your home to the community and of the fact that even though you are poor yourself, you have often fed those who have little to eat. Please forgive me for leaping to false conclusions." would be in order. Just a thought...

Rod

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From: blksheep67
Date: Thu Jun 29 21:47:23 MST 2006 Subject: response to responses

I can see the "Giving Units" remark as sarcastic although the written word is to be taken literally unless indicated otherwise and it wasn't which set me off in the first place.
Regarding Eric I didn't mention him at all so why so touchy? I haven't slurred anyone's "good" name especially since no one is good but God. The content I reacted to was not specified as from anyone but followed where God is "speaking" to Eric and on his bio there is no email listed for him. Since I don't attend the Village anymore due to the distance to travel contacting him directly wasn't available and you seem to like the internet except in this case. There is also no mention of his never having read a church growth book which is commendable. I have no knowledge good or bad of Eric's good name, generosity or kindness so I can't speak of the matter. I can say that from his bio that he likes his 'wife, child, sex, books, church, beer, and good food.'
If my tangent went too far down a bunny trail I apologize but understand the passion behind the exclusion of the working poor in the United States especially protestants in Tucson.

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From: ryan
Date: Fri Jun 30 12:56:10 MST 2006 Subject: why so touchy?

In your rant, you treated our leaders and our entire community with contempt. As followers of Christ we are the church and as such afforded dignity; you went beyond questioning our direction, but insulted our mission and focus and accused us of ignoring the poor. This contempt was based on an uninformed misinterpretation of abbreviated meeting notes. It was something like taking someone's PowerPoint slides for a presentation you did not attend, acting as if you understood the context, intention, and meaning, then proceeding to rip apart the presenter and the community to which he was speaking. My wife and I would call that rude and hurtful, not to mention completely unwarranted.

The responses to your rant have been a very gentle, gracious, and apparently much-needed kick in the butt. An apology is certainly in order; to Eric for sure, but also to the entire Village.

For what it's worth to you, we hope God meets you in your circumstances. You are more than welcome in our community and we hope that you would be able to take advantage of that bus line to whatever new building God provides for us.

Respectfully yours,

Ryan and Andrea McCulley

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From: KeithB
Date: Wed Jun 28 19:36:56 MST 2006 Subject: don't get me started...

Man, I've really gotta start coming to this website more often -- it is actually pretty entertaining from time to time! I probably need to repent of how amused and entertained I tend to be, though, at such things as grandiosity and Tourrettes and the flimsiness of half-baked minds... Luckily (if you believe in that sort of thing), I have an operational community full of giving units who generally don't mind **giving** me just what I need -- be it a swift kick in the butt or an arm to lean on.

Sometimes, when I live in fear and isolate myself and get really bitter and hateful (ya know?), I forget all the evidence of God's love for me through this community. So thanks, Village. And thanks, dude-whoever-you-are, for reminding me of all I have here.
Kb

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From: Patricia
Date: Thu Jun 29 16:24:42 MST 2006 Subject: um, yes, ...

...what keith said

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From: Karen
Date: Sun Jul 2 11:11:07 MST 2006 Subject: Semantics, etc.

I was camping with Lacie's family that weekend and missed the meeting (and therefore the immediate context), but I did notice the quotation marks around "giving units." The quotation marks suggest it's a not-to-be-taken-literally, somewhat awkward, but contextually OK phrase. I took it as a nod to the Saturday Night Live coneheads phrase "parental units," figured it was a humorous substitution for the institutional-sounding word "household"--which as a single woman, I don't particularly relate to anyway.

Robert, I can tell you're angry. But your anger was misdirected onto us/the awkward semantics/the desire that many of us have for a church building. Have you not found a way to a church home in Marana?

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