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From: Suki
Date: Fri Mar 4 17:15:17 MST 2005 Subject: I'm a Girl

Responses
rodhugen: Inadvertant seeing (3/7/05)
Karen: Simple joys? (3/10/05)
andrea: fears as a woman (3/9/05)
eric: Thxs (3/9/05)
clrclady: Moving into Girl (3/9/05)
derek: I'm a Guy (3/10/05)
SueKay: Another story (3/10/05)
Patricia: rediscovery (3/11/05)
Lor: My heart is hurt... (3/13/05)
eric: good (7/22/06)
ginger: just a girl (7/22/06)
Karen: The single girl, the single guy (8/3/06)
Responses (sorted by date)
Karen: The single girl, the single guy (8/3/06)
ginger: just a girl (7/22/06)
eric: good (7/22/06)
Lor: My heart is hurt... (3/13/05)
Patricia: rediscovery (3/11/05)
Karen: Simple joys? (3/10/05)
SueKay: Another story (3/10/05)
derek: I'm a Guy (3/10/05)
eric: Thxs (3/9/05)
clrclady: Moving into Girl (3/9/05)
andrea: fears as a woman (3/9/05)
rodhugen: Inadvertant seeing (3/7/05)
On Sunday Rod was posing for a sketch that Emily would turn into a warrior card for the game that’s being developed for the older kids. He was in a prayer stance for a long time over the sinner’s chair, and I decided to sit under his hand to support it for a while. I was being goofy and making silly comments about random things. Little did I know that he was praying for me and flashing into an experience of being me as a young teenager.
I was in my nightgown, standing in the dining room of the house where I grew up and my parents still live. The whole house was dark save the light under the microwave on the far side of the kitchen, eerie and yellow. I was trembling with fear and thinking about reaching the knife block for protection, but was aware somehow that I wasn’t supposed to be scared with my whole family home and safely asleep in their beds.
Some of the things in my past that Rod has seen before are clear to me. With this one I don’t have a memory of it having happened in this specific way, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it did. Or if it did multiple times with different details. I have so many memories of feeling terrified as a child. My parents sought with the choices they made to protect me from all sorts of evils, but didn’t communicate to me about these things with words (except for the occassional story about how something bad happened to somebody when they did this or that). So my bubbling imagination was happy to fill in the blanks with all sorts of awful possibilities. It didn’t matter that my parents were home, because clearly the scary things were more powerful than them. After all, they were the ones who were afraid. So these thought-created images would creep out of the corners in the dark of the night, would fill up the closet and the space under my bed, would lurk outside the windows. They watched me from the perimeter of my yard and followed me if I ever walked down the street alone (a rare occurrence – I was always accompanied by my 3-years-older brother). Even in high school while I babysat for people or in college as I tried to face my irrational fears and housesit by myself, they burst into my imagination and created horrors. It didn’t help that along the way I received a lot of incidental information about children being kidnapped and the fact that the prime time rapist was on the loose.
The belief that developed under all of this was ultimately that men were sexual and therefore dangerous and it was absolutely unsafe to be a girl. After all, my parents weren't frenetically guarding my brother. I’m glad they kept me hidden from all sorts of evils, but without a safe place to talk about all the ideas in my head, I created my own world of darkness and terror.
So here I am. I’m thirty-one years old. I finally feel comfortable walking around my house at night. Most of the time. But I’m afraid to go to the park by myself in the middle of the day. I’m afraid to walk to my car at night. I’m afraid of all sorts of things that pop up at odd times and curb my choices. And they all still center around the fact that I’m a girl. It's not safe to be a girl. It’s not safe to be a woman. And Rod’s vision has made me wonder how deep this fear has crept into the cracks of my life. I mean, there’s those obvious fears that I just mentioned. But I think I’ve been shaped in subtle ways by the pervasiveness of these beliefs. I think I’ve feared my own womanhood. If it’s so powerful as to make men do bad things to you, then it can’t be trusted. And I can think of so many times that I’ve opted for boyishness or plain-ness or numbness in order to sidestep the wild danger of beauty or sexuality. I know in my head that all men aren’t perpetrators and that God designed vulnerability and sexuality as good, beautiful things. I know He allows them to be experienced as good still, even in this messed up world. But here I am just discovering that I’ve long since turned off the spigot of my core identity. I wonder who I’ll turn out to be when I decide I’m willing to be a girl.

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From: rodhugen
Date: Mon Mar 7 00:24:20 MST 2005 Subject: Inadvertant seeing

Thanks.

I needed so very much to read this story. It helps me come to grips with this strange gift. I've been wrestling with being afraid of the gift. I sort of long to see and hate to see at the same time. I've also realized that my sin is wrapped up in this gift. That my believeable lie about not being 'competent and capable' flies in the face of the reality that I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Your fears triggered my fears and your very public confession allows me to also confess and then to move with power into the places God is calling me. So thanks for helping me make sense of the picture in my head and thanks for choosing to hold up my hand ala Moses in that charmingly goofy time last Sunday and mostly thanks for calling me to confession.

Rod

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From: Karen
Date: Thu Mar 10 14:50:52 MST 2005 Subject: Simple joys?

I have so many barely connectable thoughts on the current thread... might try to go there after my spring break has begun. For now, how about a quote from the "Camelot" reel to reel my mom used to play doing housework, when I was but a slip of a girl. Emily Mc and Rebecca and I were singing bits of the Lerner & Loewe song Sunday after Vespers:

"Where are the simple joys of maidenhood?
Where are all those adoring, daring boys?
Where's the knight pining so for me
He leaps to death in woe for me?
Oh, where are a maiden's simple joys?"

Is my femininity, are the value and joys of my "maidenhood" somehow defined by what a guy is willing (or not willing) to offer me?

I guess not...hold on, did I type I *guess* not? That's the heart answer. The head answer, the truth answer I've spent the last 15+ years walking into is definitely not. When I started saying, "My femininity is certainly not controlled by how others react to me," is when I started thinking of myself as a feminist. But the pull, the desire to be affirmed by others is there. We can sing jokingly about it, we can try to blow it off with hyperbole like Gloria Steinhem did with her infamous "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" quote (which by the way, I do not agree with, in case it's not already obvious) but the desire for loving affirmation is still there. (Obviously not necessarily, literally "leaping to death in woe"--a stalker of mine almost did that in '87 and it actually *sucked* and made me question my femininity even more. But that's another topic, one not likely to get blogged in detail.)

P.S. I got curious about the origins of that infamous Steinhem quote (which Bono even quotes, ironically, in one of his lyrics on the "Achtung Baby" album). Turns out Steinhem didn't actually come up with it herself; the phrase was coined by Irina Dunn, an Australian who'd been "inspired" by a phrase in one of her philosophy textbooks: "A man needs God like a fish needs a bicycle". Hmmm. Consider the source?

So... femininity is defined by myself in relationship to God, but somehow relates to how I relate to others, including men... but not controlled by others. Very, very complicated.

Derek, here's MY word choice for my own situation: "complex." Or maybe I'll go with "multifaceted" because it has more positive connotations. "Complex" is not so much an emotional word, is it? ;-)

Also, Derek, if you go back to the singleness threads of last year that you alluded to, and you read Singleness Version VI, you'll see a metaphor that connects to your poem of last week. Hmmm again....(a better hmmm this time).

Now--off to my 2nd meeting of the day (sigh). I'm already tired w/much work to do, that's why I'm so easily distracted by this thread.

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From: andrea
Date: Tue Mar 8 22:43:28 MST 2005 Subject: fears as a woman

I identified with all you said about having the fears of being a woman...rape and attack were sure to come at some time. I remember babysitting also and being fearful at night until the parents came home because I thought someone was watching and going to break in. Even now, home with Ryan or before he comes home, I am sure to lock the door because of a fear of someone coming in to attack me sexually. I had nightmares as a teen for quite a while about this happening, knowing that it eventually would.

The feeling that we, as women, cause men to sin in lust or attack sexually, is in my head. I know that it is a lie that it is not my fault for looking the way God made me to look. Recently after a night at the seneca house where dancing women were discussed at theology, I came home feeling so dirty; dirty, because I felt that I was being reminded that it is my fault for how I make men think and feel (turned on) by looking like a woman. I had a break down with this screaming about all the things in my life where I needed to be the more controlled one because apparently a man couldn't resist what my woman's body looked like. It was a difficult night with a lot of anger and truths about one abusive situation being discussed between Ryan and I.

I don't know why I am rambling like this other than this blog touched me, Sue. Thanks...

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From: eric
Date: Wed Mar 9 13:30:03 MST 2005 Subject: Thxs

Hey Andrea,

Thxs so much for sharing your heart with us. It is good for me to see how I impact you, and what you are feeling and thinking about life. Keep on rambling, you have a lot of good things to say, and a wonderful, beautiful, and painful story to tell that shows us a part of God's image that none us of can experience without you.

eric

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From: clrclady
Date: Wed Mar 9 13:03:55 MST 2005 Subject: Moving into Girl

I have not had so much the fear thing with being a girl and afraid of being attacked. For so long, I was actually hoping that someone would take me out of the picture anyway that it did not bother me. But I have this whole avoidance of being a girl. Just not moving into my womanhood or my girlness. Being a tomboy growing up, my hobbies were soccer and rifle shooting and a little hunting on the side. I hid from the whole girl thing, so much in Junior High that several people thought I was a boy and called me Russell (as in my first name, not my last). So, it is weird recently to move into being a girl and actually revealing myself as a woman. Not wearing the baggy, non-gender defining cloths all the time and actually moving into some clearly female dresses and blouses that reveal more of my womanhood and my body. It has been scary, but it has been scary in coming into my body as God’s creation. Connecting that I was created like this, and He views me as fearfully and wonderfully made. There is also the fear that it makes me vulnerable. I am no longer hidden and ambiguous. I am defining myself as woman – vulnerable. It makes the whole situation harder that people comment on my outfits which do feel good, but it registers that I am being seen, I am being looked at and I just want to divert the eyes and be invisible. It reminds me of Ashton. When someone tells her something that she does not like to hear or if she is being shy and there is a new person at the house, she closes her eyes. It is a message of – I am not here anymore, you cannot impact me. I think that is the whole running away from being a girl and being a woman. I am going to hide away, so that you cannot impact me or affect me. Moving away from that and opening my eyes and being seen is scary. It feels dangerous. So, anyways, those are my thoughts on the being a girl thing – if you were able to follow my rambling.

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From: derek
Date: Wed Mar 9 22:31:39 MST 2005 Subject: I'm a Guy

I have that same fear of being a girl. Oh, wait, no. I mean, sexuality is weird. I don't get it. I've been on this, like, three week quest with Russ to find "an emotional word to describe my sexuality." Usually, my head can mathematically calculate the most valid answers to display, list by highest ranking in meaningfulness, thoughtfulness, and passion, but that broke. I'm still on that quest. I'm a poet, dang it. I have, like, thesauruses and stuff. I told Russ I was going to go up to people and ask them to tell me an emotional word that describes my sexuality. He said it would be a bad idea. Still, I'd definitely get points for the most unique pick-up line. I just can't connect with its value. It pisses me off. Especially that Russ won't accept my, "sexuality is an evolutionary necessity" response as a proper value statement. So, sexuality is apparently still a bit of an issue with me. Probably with all of us, I'd guess. I almost wept when I read these posts. I didn't weep though. That's 'cause I'm a guy.

The discussion on singleness we had some time back helped me a lot. It's always a little awkward to be a guy and to be called the "bride of Christ." To understand the Church as His bride puts everything in a different light. I have an easier time seeing myself as a part of that Church body, a part that makes sure those parts which need special covering will recieve it. Which is to say, I am to be the protecter of the bride of Christ and to love her as Christ loves her. As a single man, that doesn't translate nicely into a blood family dynamic, but I still am a protector of those who do not have it within the church.

So my back and shoulders are sore from moving and working with sound equipment all afternoon at Teen Challenge, but my muscles still all tense up and ready when I go through these posts. That's 'cause I'm a guy. I want to just fix it and make it all better. I'm not exactly a knight in shining armor riding on a noble steed, but I'm kinda big and that might be all you can get nowadays. Or else someone atavistic enough to be entirely unable to cope with the changing cognative dissonances inherrant in the modern post-feminist/mid-"promise keeperesque" social etiquette and value systems we have given weight to.

Anyway, that wasn't my point. The point is that I want for you to have been defended in those times, protected in the places where you felt helpless. But I have faith that you always have been protected, and God's got it all figured out, bringing you here, now, and all that. Anyway, there is also a side of guys that see femininity as valuable, worth defending, and that hate that it is desecrated. That just usually happens to be the side we don't listen to.

I always found great amusement with the statement (which I know several people who take very seriously) that "dancing leads to sex." The process by which, if considered, is quite true of almost anything, especially of foods or recreations. Yet, on Sunday I watched an amazingly worshipful dance that was in it's essence effeminate. I think the only problem is that we don't have enough healthy displays of femininity around. All the perverse ones tend to shake to the top (so to speak). Anyway, make what you will of the post, just felt I should blog it. Wish you happy huntings on finding your girlness/womanhood/etc. :)

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From: SueKay
Date: Thu Mar 10 01:47:01 MST 2005 Subject: Another story

It is sad how twisted our views are on so, so many things. Sometimes (most of the time?) I wonder if any of my views are even close to what they should be. How close to the truth are my beliefs? Even, how close to the truth are my emotions? My lack of emotion covers my sadness covers my anger covers my pain covers my fear covers my love...
But that is rather general and I am trying to relate my own personal story to the posts here, so here goes.
I think for me, one of the twisted messages I grew up with about being a girl is that being a girl meant being weak, less interesting, and less able to accomplish things than boys. For one thing it seemed there were more rules for girls - don't run, look nice, play quietly... I pretty much ignored those rules as much as possible, but I was still very aware that I was going against how people thought I should be acting as a girl. So the message was, since I didn't want to do play by those rules, I was not doing a good job at being a girl. I remember wishing in elementary school that I was a boy, and that wasn't because I wanted to be masculine, but because I didn't want to conform to the culture's view of how a girl should be. It seemed like, in order to my myself, I had to deny the side of me that was a girl. I know that doesn't quite make since, but that is how it felt. I also grew up in a household that, in subtle ways, conveyed that "girly" things were substandard. Things like dressing up and make up and thinking about having a boyfriend were looked down on if not outright forbidden. It is still very confusing to my just what it means to be feminine. Does this mean I should curl my hair? Pierce my ears? Care what my clothes look like? Or does this mean I should be a nurturer, and take care of people? Should I rely on my "feminine intuition" more than facts? Should I be more emotional than men? Should I give in to the idea that I am the "weaker sex"? I really have no idea what being feminine is all about. But whatever it is, I do know I got the message that it was not something valuable. Instead it was a weakness, a handicap, a necessary evil.
I wrote a list about 5 years back, of 50 words that described me: daughter, sister, friend, basketball player, singer, reader, student, ... Woman wasn't on the list. Sometimes that disturbs me. Most of the time I think: is who I am really tied so much to the fact that I am a woman? Isn't there so much more to me than that? Does that one fact need to pervade all else?
Still thinking...
-Susan Park

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From: Patricia
Date: Fri Mar 11 16:20:30 MST 2005 Subject: rediscovery

Reading about the feelings of being alone and unprotected as a girl resonated with me. I do not remember feeling particularly safe or protected growing up at home. I was well taken care of in most areas, had everything a little girl could ask for, but I wasn't protected from the unthinkable. Later, as a young adult I lived an utterly reckless life, maneuvering myself into situations that very well could have cost me my life. I was tempting death, not wanting to take my own life. Time tempered things but did not heal. Passing time deepened my depression and with it the motivation to look for life OR death waned. I finally just have been living with the conclusion that I never ever in my life valued my very state of living. So now, reading from Suki, Andrea, and Cheryl opened the door for me to recall something almost lost.
It is not true, then, that I have always disdained my life. It is not true that I always saught to destroy myself. It is not true that I always would have welcomed the opportunity to leave this world behind. I remember going on an overnight field trip at age fourteen. I went for an evening walk and wound up lost in a strange town. I asked for directions to get home, and a man offered to walk me back to where I needed to go. At some point I realized that he was taking me not back, but instead was leading me to a remote wooded area. Up until that moment I had mostly been concerned about returning late to the group. Now, that I saw his opened pant zipper I feared for myself and ran. Yes, I ran!!!
Doesn't seem such a big deal. Anyone would have run. But, you see, in more recent years I had come to believe that I had NEVER valued my life. I can recall many details of that evening. And I remember now distinctly that I did NOT want this man to rape me or kill me. I DID value my life. I have proof for myself in this memory. And yes. It is a big deal for me.

Rereading my writing, I see out of the corner of my eye another can of worms, waiting for me to face it squarely:
Do I cause men to have sinful or evil thoughts? Do I invite them to do whatever they would? Have I been guilty of that or have I been taking responsibility for something I ought not? What do I believe about my role as a woman, as a girl, as a girl-child in situations of abuse?

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From: Lor
Date: Sun Mar 13 14:20:02 MST 2005 Subject: My heart is hurt...

Some of you know me, others do not. I know the Seneca house from when i used to live in Tucson. Anyway, reading Sue's blog, and then all the responses, just broke my heart. I hurt for those of you who have had to deny or struggle with the issue of being a woman/female. I, too, have no real idea of what it is to BE a woman. I was deprived of the honor long ago, and have, since then, believed I don't have the right to show my feminine side; I once was quite emotional, dramatic and very outgoing..I loved being with people and shopping for clothes. Now, i have become quiet, reclusive and withdrawn. Many people have told me over the years to "tone it down", stop being so dramatic, or that my choices were all wrong. Even my own mother compared me to others as i grew up...my identity has been a big question mark my whole life. being inspired by your heartfelt comments, though,I would like to take a leap of faith and begin to explore the question of my womanhood. Thank you all.
Lorie

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From: eric
Date: Fri Jul 21 22:06:19 MST 2006 Subject: good

this blog was so good, I thought I'd bump it back into the conversation.

eric 7/21/06

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From: ginger
Date: Sat Jul 22 09:18:16 MST 2006 Subject: just a girl

Wow. Ever heard the song "i'm just a girl" by No Doubt. It sums my the feeling of weakness and worthlessness. I went through a very tomboy stage (kinda still in it) because I felt more accepted that way. I've never felt feminine.
As for the feeling of fear, I can totally relate. When I was younger I lived in SoCal. At the time there was a serial killer near my area called the night stalker. Completely evil right down to the 666 tattooed on him. I was 10 or 11, my dad was away over seas and we lived in an old house that creaked a lot. Whenever I heard noises I would imagine that my dad sent all the Marines to stand on my roof, rifles in hand.
Now as an adult, I am home alone a lot because of Kevin's schedule and I find that I still startle easily, check closets, imagine the worst case senario and experience anxiety at normal shadow movement.
Thank you so much for sharing your fears. It's nice to know we're not alone in the darkness.

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From: Karen
Date: Thu Aug 3 13:28:43 MST 2006 Subject: The single girl, the single guy

I think that girls, across the board, long to be sought after. (Please, please go out of your way for me.) And yet--after so many years of disappointments or outright assaults--it's hard to even acknowledge the validity of that desire.

For two days on the cruise ship, I didn't even encounter a single guy. Then on the second night, I was sweeping down the staircase with ice water in hand about to catch the rest of the show being put on by the deuling piano bar guys. (They played the most outrageous requests, including an over the top "Bohemian Rhapsody" and a most bizarre cover of an infamous Tone Loc song.) In between floors, a guy spotted me and called out, "You with the cup!"

I hadn't even made eye contact yet. I stopped, thinking, well, I'll give him 5 seconds. He was tall, handsome, and unattractively drunk. He gave a short song and dance followed by a come on that I'll spare you the details of.

It was just after midnight. And I didn't feel much like Cinderella on that staircase. But I kept telling myself it had nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with me...

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