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From: SPark
Date: Sat Mar 11 20:36:13 MST 2006
Subject: Forgiveness?

Responses
Krysti: multiplication (3/12/06)

russ: No Subject (3/13/06)

Responses (sorted by date)
russ: No Subject (3/13/06)
Krysti: multiplication (3/12/06)

Ramblings on forgiveness from last week's sermon about the Lord's Prayer. I was trying to explore my questions on what is forgiveness and what kind of situation sets up the need for forgiveness.
There was something I needed from you. Or maybe I just wanted, or hoped for it. You didn't come through for me, and that hurt me. Or maybe, what I wanted was that you NOT do something, but you did it anyway, and that hurt, maybe it hurt really bad. So what do I do with this? I hate what you did. It caused me pain, and still causes me pain, like a wound that won't heal. I wish I could erase that if ever happened. I hate you for making it happen (or for not giving me what I needed).
What can I do about how I feel? I am wounded, and I cannot erase the wound. And you, you are the wound-giver, the pain-maker, the sorrow-bringer. You are a reminder of my pain, my wounding, my hurt. Maybe if I could erase you I could erase my pain. That is what I feel, so I try to forget you and what you did. But it doesn't work. The wound is there, whether or not I look at it, whether or not I look at you. What can I do, full of anxiety and pain and fear? Will the wound heal if I just wait long enough? If time is not enough, then what will it take? Will an apology heal? Will reparation? Maybe so.
But healing the wound is not forgiveness. So what is it to forgive? It is not to say, "it is ok, what you did." Is it to say, "I know what you did, but in spite of what you did I love you"? Must we love those who have wounded us in order to forgive them? Perhaps it is to let go of my single-minded view of you, my view that you are the wound-giver and that is your identity. Can I see you anew? Can I see the you beyond the pain you gave me? How do I see you differently? Is it a decision? A (God-given) change of heart?

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From: Krysti
Date: Sun Mar 12 12:44:06 MST 2006
Subject: multiplication

I think that forgiveness is all of the things you suggested, one for this, one for that, maybe 3 or more for some hurts. But, I think the job of forgiveness is like memorizing the multiplication facts. A child must recite and repeat constantly to memorize the facts.
Forgiveness of the hard things sometimes takes that very same repetition before we actually KNOW the fact of forgiveness. It's not something that just comes naturally and we have to really work to learn it. As we repeat our desire to forgive we learn a little bit more about it each time and gradually we become so intimate with it that it can indeed become true. The catch though is that it usually has to start from scratch with each offence. Forgiveness is a variable thing. Depending on the hurt.
One thing I've learned during my many repetitions is that forgiveness does not necessarily stop the hurt from stinging. Some hurts are longer lasting just because they are.
A real example: I have been repetitively forgiving my father for so many years now that I truly am intimate with it. But... that forgiveness still can not give me a personal knowledge of a healthy relationship with a good and loving father. No matter how real the forgiveness is, it can't change the effect of his choices and sins.
A made up example of what I mean: It would take an awfully long time (if I was even up to the work of deciding to do it) for me to forgive someone killing my child, but even forgiving that person would not take away the pain I would feel each and every time I thought of my child.
Those two things, forgiving and feeling the pain, are so totally seperate, but they seem to be together. The confusion of that sometimes causes doubt to the validity of the forgiveness given.
This doesn't answer the question that you asked about "what needs forgiveness" because I think that often most things do. It's unfortunate that we as humans need to be forgiven so often! But, there you have my tangent.

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From: russ
Date: Mon Mar 13 14:08:07 MST 2006
Subject:

I really liked your perspective, Krysti. It was profound. Thanks for posting!

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