Villagersonline : blogs : RyMo : The Lion King
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From: RyMo
Date: Thu Jul 17 17:58:04 EDT 2008 Subject: The Lion King

Responses
andrea: no soul??? (7/18/08)
rodhugen: Huh???? (7/18/08)
andrea: thanks... (7/18/08)
russ: another off-topic reponse (7/18/08)
emily: all the topics (7/23/08)
Responses (sorted by date)
emily: all the topics (7/23/08)
russ: another off-topic reponse (7/18/08)
andrea: thanks... (7/18/08)
rodhugen: Huh???? (7/18/08)
andrea: no soul??? (7/18/08)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adYbFQFXG0U

A friend sent me this today. It reminded me of the part in my talk from Sunday regarding our relationship with creation and how it might be way better than we're currently experiencing. This clip might just be a glimpse of what's to come...

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From: andrea
Date: Fri Jul 18 00:21:28 EDT 2008 Subject: no soul???

Ok...that video makes me think about a sermon in which Rod said that cats/pets only love us for the food we will give them and that they have no souls (and therefore, won't be in heaven). That lion is the head of his pride...he doesn't need the humans to give him food anymore. But he still loves them. Hmmmm, I really think Spaz love me no matter what too! I always will!

Sorry that was off the topic you wanted Ryan Moore, but I wasn't here to hear your sermon and it made me think of this other topic.

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From: rodhugen
Date: Fri Jul 18 07:06:32 EDT 2008 Subject: Huh????

I did say that Spaz does not have a soul and I did say that pets love you because you feed them and take care of them, and that love is a conditional love. Stop feeding Spaz and letting her curl up in your house and see how long she hangs around. :)

I have never said that your pets won't be in heaven. There is ample evidence in the Bible that there are animals in heaven. Peter's vision of a sheet coming down out of heaven full of animals seems to indicate there are even 'unclean' animals in heaven. Someday the lion will lie down with the lamb. Span may well be in the new creation. Spaz is a creature that God dearly loves. Spaz, however, was not made in the image of God. You and I are! And we can love the wonderful things God has created including Spaz.

Although I much prefer Blaise and Soren. Maybe someday I'll even see Yeats and Keats again. They were also pretty great cats.

Kathy told me to never talk bad about people's kids or their pets in my sermons. :)

Rod

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From: andrea
Date: Fri Jul 18 12:18:39 EDT 2008 Subject: thanks...

for the clarification. Glad that Spaz (he) might be in heaven with us. He has been a good companion and dear to our hearts!

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From: russ
Date: Fri Jul 18 14:25:01 EDT 2008 Subject: another off-topic reponse

This is also a little off-topic, but watching that video, I couldn't help thinking of the Hungry Tiger of Oz.

(The Oz books - there are 14 by the L Frank Baum, and more written after he died - are definitely good reading for small kids!)

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From: emily
Date: Wed Jul 23 15:02:19 EDT 2008 Subject: all the topics

Its nice to know that we are discussing an age-old mystery.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

In Genesis 9:5 God says "And for you lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal." What part of an animals can be responsible to an "accounting"?

Its true, animals are far more limited than we are in areas like higher reasoning and capacity for abstract thought. They are more subject to biological forces that take over a lot of what we consider "free will".

It also appears to be true that we are in a similar position in our relationship to God. Sometimes I feel like the love I have to offer God is similar to the love that my pet can offer me. I'm just a "dumb animal" compared to God. I am limited in understanding and subject to biological forces that appear to rule my "free will" sometimes.

Hunger is a big biological force. Its possible our pets would run away if we stopped feeding them. On the other hand, hungry humans do things that are hard to reconcile with "unconditional love". The cannibalism described in Jeremiah 19:9 is hard to take. And humans have been known to sacrifice their children to idols in hopes that it would ensure food and other biological needs for their community. There are other, less dramatic ways that we run away from other humans they stop feeding us.

Animals have a long history of loyalty and sacrificial acts of love for their masters. Not every animal in the world acts like that but then again, perhaps not every animal really loves his master or is sacrificially unselfish.

Animals also seem to pick up "emotional abuse" symptoms when they have been bound to cruel owners. The patterns are strikingly like human patterns. I know emotions are not all there is to love, but do we know for sure that animals don't have what it takes to REALLY love like we do? Maybe not with the same level of understanding but, then again, God doesn't seem to mind that we are not as understanding as he is....

The detail that seems to set us apart from the animals is that we are made in the image of God. What if that is just the "everlasting" part. What if animals have a soul/spirit (whatever) that is not everlasting? It loves, makes choices, gets judged by God, etc. but it doesn't last beyond death?

Anyway, the video made made me cry and wish we were already in the new earth.

And Daniel will be reading the OZ series this next year. I hope he likes it.

Emily Mc.

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