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stevek: Gays (12/26/06)

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stevek: Gays (12/26/06)

I sent this email to a woman who feels that christians should not teach their child the Christian religion, because they will become bigots to the gay community, and anti-womens rights to the abortion rights community.

Dear Sonya and Lauren Sandler:

I would rather have a child or teenager accept Christ Jesus, has his Lord and Savior, than live in a world that can not define values and morality, in fear of offending someone or something. I would rather have a child or teenager, understand and accept the reality of sin, and realize that their sins were forgiven, at a time and place, and under circumstances that were completely out of their control or influence. Christ Jesus’ historical life, death and resurrection took place some 2000 years ago, and at that time and place Jesus freely gave up his life for the sins of every single person that has or will ever live on earth—Every single human being. When a person realizes that no matter who they are, or what talents and abilities they may have, or not have. That they have one thing in common with every other person that has lived or will live, and that commonality is sin. We humans are full of sin. We have laws that prove that we are unable and unwilling to do what is right. Humans are evil, with an ability to do what is right sometimes. This includes Christians. A Christian is someone who understands that God exists, and that He is an active, and loving God, who repulsed by sin. That he created us humans knowing that we would instinctively sin, given a choice. So he loves us so much that he made a way to gain his favor, so that he would no longer see our filth—sin. That is when Jesus died and was resurrected. We have the choice to accept God, as he is, and accept ourselves as we are. God shows his true love this way, any other way, and it would only be a perverted distorted love. I accept God as he is, and accept that Jesus died and was resurrected for my sins. Because of this act from God to me, I am grateful and thankful. Out of my gratitude, I start to develop a relationship with God. I read and study the Bible, one manner in which I relate with God, and have a real relationship with Him. I pray to God, so that my words, emotions, thoughts can be heard by myself and by God. God speaks to me through the pages in the bible, through my thoughts, through my community, and through daily life. As the relationship develops, I realize that God only has my best interest, and that as I change, it is always in my best interest. As a Christian, and as a person, I am also stubborn, and often not so willing and compliant to do things God’s way, but would rather have my way. Either way, God shows me that he is sovereign, and I am to submit to His will.

I started this email, stating that I would rather have our youth live a Christian life, as apposed to a secular or humanist view of the world. A Christian has a specific set of values and morals which guide acceptable behavior. A Christian has a specific world view, which also guides acceptable behavior. The majority of the world’s religions adhere to the same set of values and morals, as the Christian religion. The religion you propagate is one of the few religions of the world that do not adhere to this “basic set of values and morals” and it was specifically designed that way by its founder. Secular Humanism was founded by Paul Kurtz, John Dewey, and Charles Potter, out of a need to rationalize and strike down all values and morals, in the enlightened thinkers in modern and post modern society. What separates and distinguishes all religions from all others is a distinct view of the world we live in. This world view is why secular humanism is considered a religion, and not a philosophy.

I would rather have and teach a child to believe, and uphold Christianity above all others, because of the world view that only Christianity adheres to. Through this world view, a human begins to understand himself at a deeper level, and realizes why he needs to become more passionate in his relationships with others, and develop a real and deep level of compassion for all others. Christianity as a religion, is taking the High Road, because it starts at such a low place—The depravity of the individual person. The person makes a choice to live a depraved and sinful life, and God being who He is, knew this when He started His creation. God knew that He and He alone would have to make it possible for completely Holy and Righteous God to accept His imperfect, but deeply loved Humans, as His Children, worthy of his love and compassion. All God requires in return is to love Him, as He is, for who He is, because He is, and to develop a relationship with him, that is dependent on Him. This world view forces the individual to see that he is no better than anyone else, and that he is completely dependent on God to open his eyes to see his own sins and willing to allow God to change his character, behavior, words, and thoughts. It is through the process of permitting God to change our sins into righteousness that a Christian learns to develop a deeper relationship with God, and with others. We slowly realize that God does have our best interest at heart. As a result, a Christian develops a true and deep since of compassion for every other person. It is a compassion that is not selfish or self absorbed, rather a compassion for others born out of grace and consideration for that individual person. This is why I would rather teach a child to believe and uphold Christianity. It is the only religion in the world that promotes such high standards on the individual. It is the only religion that completely upholds passion and compassion for and to all others.

You believe that Christianity offers no compassion to a very small segment of society, and in fact Christian Society is completely intolerant of the Gay and Lesbian and transgender segment of society. This segment of society makes up less than 3% of society. You believe that Christianity offers no compassion to the woman who has an abortion, or to the woman who wants to have an abortion. You believe that Christian Society is intolerant of these women who choose to have an abortion. You believe that Christianity and Christian Society are bigoted, unenlightened, uneducated foolish individuals that are worse than Hitler.

I take great offence at your thinking and reasoning. I am a Christian, and I have never met a Christian who thinks or states that a gay, lesbian, or transgendered person is not of equal value or worth. I must also state that I am completely convinced that the gay, lesbian or transgendered person has chosen to live their lives as they want, and that life is a sin filled life, but it is their choice. Yes I am stating that homosexuality (male and female) is wrong, and that altering the sexual gender of a person is born with also wrong. I have historical evidence that also backs that statement up. In every society that has existed, since the beginning of human history, no society has ever thrived that did not perceive homosexual relationships to be equal to or of equal value to that of heterosexual relationships. Even in the hedonistic Roman Empire, homosexuality was offensive to the society as a whole. The only society that ever completely embraced homosexuality was a society that was formed out of the homosexual populations of other societies, and those were always lawless societies, that soon faded.

Homosexuality is wrong, it is a sin, it is amoral, it is in fact a sexual dysfunction. I can state this as my belief, based on my Christian world view, and based on historical evidence of human history. Even human psychology would agree that if there were a term or condition called “sexual dysfunction” or “sexual abnormal behavior” homosexuality would have to be included. All psychology did was to delete the terms, so that homosexuality is not included in the broad spectrum of treating mental illness.

In Christianity, homosexuality is a sin, but it is not a higher rated sin, than any other sin. This means that homosexual behavior should not be practiced, by those people that profess to be Christians. It means that the act of same sex intercourse or sexual behavior is not something that honors God, or is healthy for the individual person, in particular, the Christian individual. This does not provide a superiority for the Christian over the homosexual, as much as it provides a comfort in God’s gift of salvation, and the need for it. A Christian does not have the right to inflict Christian values and morals on non Christians.

The fact is that Christian society mirrors society in general. A typical church building and congregation is made up from the general population of society, filled with sinners. It is filled with people that are struggling with some sin, not aware of other sin in their lives, and to various degrees allowing God to work in their lives to overcome the crippling and devastating affects of sin. The only difference between the two segments of society is how they view the world. For me, I have decided to see the world through God’s economy, and not mine.

You have chosen to look at the world from the secular humanist vantage point. In your viewpoint something is there to give you comfort in knowing that you are right. I do not understand what that is, nor can I. I am not attempting to persuade you to see my viewpoint, as better or right. I spent my time writing this to you, because I would like to understand what you personally receive from your view of the world. While I look at secular humanism as a highly polished, yet superficial view of the world, you see it in a different light. I also want you to know that I am greatly bothered by superiority over the Christian religion, based on that they are different than your. As a secular humanist, you do not have that right, because my personal opinion and view is completely equal to yours. My opinion and that of Christianity is completely equal to you, and that of secular humanism. Both are just as valid. You have to accept both as equals; otherwise you are making a judgment. Hence, the paradox of secular humanism. It fails to be a philosophic view, and because a theology.

I would like to have you respond back, if you wish. Maybe together we can solve all the problems of the world (HA HA), or maybe we can get to know each other a bit better.

Cordially,

Ron Wyman

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From: stevek
Date: Mon Dec 25 17:43:56 MST 2006
Subject: Gays

Ron;
I don't think I know you, but from what you've written, it is clear that your beliefs reflect pretty much mainline fundamentalist Christian orthodoxy - so I do know your perspective. I believe it may be of value to you if you were to recognize that that belief system is old and tired, and simply reflects a literal reading of the bible that can no longer stand the scrutiny of a dispassionate observer. The Christian bible is a midrashic effort on the part of the early Christian Jews to carry on the traditions of their faith tradition; that is Judaism. As the orthodox Jews tried to hang onto the teachings of the Torah, the new Christian Jews looked for ways to draw the stories of those books into their new experience with God that they saw in a man called Jesus. With that, they wrote the stories of Jesus in a manner that 'updated' what they knew from the Torah and the Hebrew bible upon which they were reared. There is nothing objective in that, but is simply a subjective attempt to use story telling (midrash)to carry forward the tales and myths that the Jewish people had written into their end of what we now know as the bible. Those tales necessarily included the social mores and norms of the times - including a fundamentally patriarchical social caste system, definitions of clean and unclean that science has now shown to be primative, the acceptance of slavery, and on and on. If you choose to "view the world through God's economy" and you define God's economy as having been stuck in a premodern social mileu that exited over 2,000 years ago, then I suspect a literal reading of the bible is ok for you. But we no longer believe in that 3 tiered universe in which they believed pre-Copernicus and Gallilio / both of whom were chastised or worse by the church for trying to drag it into a more scientifically relevant world view. God is necessarily vastly larger than any of our doctrines and dogmas - and especially that is true of those that result from reading the bible in a literal fashion. You cannot escape the truth that words are merely symbols / and God is larger than our symbols. How indeed can we describe the indescribable - we use the insufficiency of words. God's 'economy' is not locked up between the covers of the Christian bible / that is arrogant. Further you state that there is a 'specific Christian world view.' Is that so? Then what accounts for the multiplicty of denominations and the fracturing of the church along lines that address the exact issues you raise with your friend. The Episcopal church last week suffered a split over the issue of gay clergy. You worship at Our Saviour's Lutheran church - on our grounds, anyway - and this denomination has split within itself over the issue of female clergy. It is simply not the fact that there is a single Christian world view. Christianity cannot agree within its own doors the answer to those issues. I would suggest to you that the literal reading of the bible drives one to conclude that the moral understandings of a middle eastern society that existed 2,000 years ago are in fact those by which we need to still live. The trouble is that we ought not be bound by such a silly proposition. God is not sitting on top of the clouds (heaven) with us below (earth) and a lake of fire (hell) below. The flat earth society is long gone / would that the literalists finally see that too and begin to open the bible with new eyes that read the stories/myths as they were meant to be read by those who penned them - Jewish Christians who were telling their experiences of Jesus from a very Jewish perspective - not factual historical accounts, but midrashic interpretations of events that they tied to their Hebrew roots (Moses on Mt. Tabor in the presence of God / came down radiant - Jesus on Mt. of Transfiguration - shined brighter than anything on earth - Moses, Elijah, Elisha all parting the waters to enter the promised land - Jesus at the time of his baptism and the story says that the heavens (sky/water) parted and heaven shown through and the spirit descended on him indicating that he
was the way to the promised land - Daniel 3 days in the lions den (tomb) with a stone rolled over the mouth of it - and yet he walked out of it - Jesus, as the story goes did the same and is in some fashion now considered to be alive in God...) I could go on and on, but the point is that the words were never written to be literally read and/or applied. Christianity is not the only religion in the world that promotes a high standard for human values as you state. That is religious bigotry and unfactual.
Your friend is correct - a literal reading of the bible will lead one to be a homophobe and a sexist ("women are not to speak in church") Further, if your child disobeys you, you are to stone him to death - is that what you're after, too? Does your God really authorize mass murder, or even the killing of 2 who held back some money from the church? Did your God really literally condemn all of human history to damnation because some chick at a piece of fruit? Did Jesus really literally raise the dead and cause the blind to see again, thus violating the laws of science and nature that God had put into place - or may we read these stories as midrash to teach us that by following the teachings of that man, we are raised to a new life and our eyes are opened where they were once blinded. Do you also really believe that there is a literal geographic place called heaven that is lined with golden streets - and only those who understood correctly the literalness of your reading of the bible will go there for eternity to be with God / and those who misunderstood will burn in a literal geographic lake of fire for eternity. God will do that to those of his creation who misunderstood? These are the sorts of conundrums that literalizing the words of the bible lead to. You are correct - we all have our sin / and none is greater or lesser in scale than another. But society also grows and learns where some of it's own sin has lay; sexism was rampant in biblical times - it no longer is, except for within the 4 walls of fundamentalist churches, synagoges and mosques. Why does the village allow women to speak in church and to come in without their heads covered. The answer lies in the fact that we as a society have grown and learned the foolishness of those bonds we placed on our sisters. As for homosexuality - I, too struggle with understanding it as a life style, and yet we are learning through medicine that people do not necessarily elect that life style / it is inbred genetically. That also accounts for transgender men and women. Right psyche, but wrong plumbing. It is long past time that the Christian church stop inflicting it's old and tired premodern biases on what we in a postmodern age now know from sciencetific advancements and the advance of social norms and values that have come with that. The bible is myth/stories - they're true, but not in the main are they factual. There's a vast difference - start to read the bible through Jewish eyes, with the eyes of a story teller who is using midrash to connect his present experience of God with his traditional roots (Judaism) in the same fashion that the Hebrew bible was written. Once you do that, some of the scales will fall from your eyes and you will see that we are all God's children and can learn and grow from one another in sharing from our necessarily limited efforts to capture a deeper meaning of what God is. Ain't none of us got it. We all see in a mirror dimly.
Steve K.

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