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From: Mike_Wise
Date: Wed Jan 11 11:56:02 EST 2012 Subject: The Abundant Life

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eric: A Life (1/12/12)
Mike_Wise: What wouldd it look like (1/12/12)
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Mike_Wise: What wouldd it look like (1/12/12)
eric: A Life (1/12/12)
This morning before I headed off to work I saw a clip of an interview Oprah did with Joel Osteen. Among other things they spoke about posterity. How God doesn't desire for you to be poor but not only that he doesn't desire for you to be depressed either. He thinks that when people don't get the things that they pray for it's a combination of things. Not only not having enough faith but not being properly trained on how to use prayer.

I guess for myself I don't see it as that complicated. I don't think people need to be trained how to pray properly for one thing. Anyone of us can enter the throne room of the father whenever we wish. But as far as the other things he said? I think it ties into some of the things I was saying yesterday.

I don't know if God desires us to be either rich or poor from a financial state. I think his concern is well beyond material gain though I do know that he desires us not to be hung up on those types of distractions. At the beginning of the year Corrie and I decided to start over from the beginning of both the old and new testament, and last night as we were reading in Matthew, the sermon on the mount, we read Jesus saying not worry about our life, what we will wear or eat. And of course earlier in the book he warns us that we cannot love both God and money. Though we can certainly make a god out of money and other things.

Of course the prosperity gospel goes against everything I believe about Jesus and his calling of me to this world. It goes against what I read in The Wounded Healer by Henri Nouwen where he says that he does not believe that Jesus meant for us to come out of brokenheartedness or out of suffering, but rather to use these things as a testament to the grace that has saved us and use our stories to reach other broken people.

But what do you think? When Jesus says that he has come to give you a more abundant life do you think that mean he wishes that you become rich and all or even many of your problems will go away? If you don't become rich and shake your fears and depression is that a failure of your faith?

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From: eric
Date: Thu Jan 12 11:40:53 EST 2012 Subject: A Life

The Abundant Life.

Jesus certainly came and provided an abundant life. But that offer never included big houses, cool cars, lots of money, and all the food I can eat. The abundant life that Jesus offers is a life that is real, not a life bound by fear, death, and slavery. Unfortunately, when we are prone to think about the abundant life - it is the context of our consumer-american dream-overeaters-god. This God is only happy when we are selfishly following our own happiness. And so we pray: God - please give me all the stuff I want, and keep suffering and pain out of my life, and give me better this and that.

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From: Mike_Wise
Date: Thu Jan 12 12:10:55 EST 2012 Subject: What wouldd it look like

Thanks for your thoughts Eric. I wonder what it would look like if we as God's people began to see prayer differently than how we see it now. I think that anytime we communicate with God it's a good thing but what if we really opened ourselves up to God's will? What would happen then?
What if we asked God to break our hearts for this world?
What if we asked for just enough?
What if we asked for vision? To be able to see like Jesus saw?
What if we asked to not be afraid anymore? What if we asked God to love everyone where they were no matter where that was?
I wonder what would happen if we had the courage to do that?

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