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From: GaryG
Date: Tue Aug 24 15:10:47 MST 2004 Subject: Losing my religion

Responses
mike: clarify (8/26/04)
Karen: Freedom of dis-association... (8/26/04)
derek: Fun with Words (8/27/04)
rodhugen: Hmmm... (8/27/04)
russ: Ouch (8/28/04)
stevek: Welcome back Eric (8/29/04)
eric: Hmmm (8/29/04)
eric: Religion (8/27/04)
russ: Service vs. Power (8/28/04)
stevek: christian (8/28/04)
eric: Welcome Back Steve (8/29/04)
russ: misunderstanding? (8/29/04)
stevek: misunderstand (8/29/04)
keibru: simple me (8/29/04)
GaryG: Diversity rules! (8/30/04)
Responses (sorted by date)
GaryG: Diversity rules! (8/30/04)
keibru: simple me (8/29/04)
stevek: misunderstand (8/29/04)
russ: misunderstanding? (8/29/04)
eric: Hmmm (8/29/04)
stevek: Welcome back Eric (8/29/04)
eric: Welcome Back Steve (8/29/04)
stevek: christian (8/28/04)
russ: Service vs. Power (8/28/04)
russ: Ouch (8/28/04)
eric: Religion (8/27/04)
rodhugen: Hmmm... (8/27/04)
derek: Fun with Words (8/27/04)
Karen: Freedom of dis-association... (8/26/04)
mike: clarify (8/26/04)
http://weblogs.oxegen.us/oxegen/archive/2004/08/17/3914.aspx
I'm with this guy....I quit, I resign...don't call me "Christian" any longer. Read this article, tell me your thoughts.
Gary

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From: mike
Date: Thu Aug 26 11:46:36 MST 2004 Subject: clarify

Are you saying you are no longer a part of our community, Are you rejecting the values of our faith, or are you just fed up with those that play church? If it is the latter, I agree there are those that hate in the name of the Lord. Paul and Jesus both warned us about such folk. The religous right is exactly that, with little compassion for the lost. I tend to call myself a follower of Jesus when talking to the unchurched.
There are too many religous folk that do great harm to christanity with thier pious attitudes. They do not offer help to the poor if they unbelievers. They build expensive buildings in the name of the Lord, and protest in front of abortion clinics, but do not do much usefull for the Kingdom. Such people are one of the reasons I am going into social work. They are also guilty of a grave sin, hindering people from putting thier faith in Jesus. They will be held accountable for thier actions. All of that being said, I will not just surrender the title of christanity to them, I will not let them hijack the faith without at least a protest. I will not walk away, and let such people represent my beliefs. Most importantly, nor will the Lord. I do not agree with that blog. We are not called to slip away, and let such represent the faith. We are called to speak truth. More I would like to say, but I am almost out of room, and have an appt. to keep.

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From: Karen
Date: Thu Aug 26 15:22:05 MST 2004 Subject: Freedom of dis-association...

Mike asks, "Are you saying you are no longer a part of our community, Are you rejecting the values of our faith, or are you just fed up with those that play church?"

It doesn't seem that the blogger is avoiding the Christ-following community, but that he is once-and-for-all rejecting the label and the "organized religion" aspects. I assume this is what Gary is talking about.

As for "values of our faith"...it would depend on what values you're talking about. Are we talking about the "Village Values"? Are we talking about an agreement to believe the Apostles' Creed? Or are we talking about the religious-type values: go to church every Sunday, read your Bible 15 minutes every day, say grace before every meal and your good-night prayers?

I think I can speak for Gary that he's definitely "fed up with those that play church." To paraphrase Paul's letter to the Corinthians: "If I do all that amazing churchy stuff and don't demonstrate God's love, I'm just a big blowhard."

While I prefer not to identify myself as an evangelical Christian to someone I don't know well, it's like my tendency not to identify myself as a liberal and/or feminist to most people (especially in evangelical Christian circles). People tend to have knee-jerk reactions to these not-very-specific labels. In the words of Walt Whitman:

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

On the other hand, I manage to identify myself as a Protestant when prodded for a religious label on a survey form; "Christ-follower" is not an option. (It does seem weird to have to define my "religious" orientation as a protest of something, though.) I'm also content to wear my crosses, understanding that Madonna doesn't mean the same thing by wearing hers. The term "Christian," like the word "Democrat," is broad enough for many stand to under, and let the confusions and clarifications come, as they certainly will. I wish the word hadn't been corrupted, but... whatcha gonna do?

I'm reminded of that line in _The Princess Bride_: "I don't think that word means what you think it means!"

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From: derek
Date: Thu Aug 26 19:45:32 MST 2004 Subject: Fun with Words

And in the end, it all comes down to Princess Bride... I've roller-coastered through the emotional and intellectual aspects of the label "Christianity" over the last few years. Now, I guess I call myself a Christian mostly because I work at Teen Challenge and I don't want to have to argue with my students about going to heaven. Beyond that, I don't care too much. I've just never heard a suitable label for a "Christ-follower" that didn't seem like it belonged to a cult or else required such a massive explanation that I would avoid answering any questions to its affect.

As for me, I follow Mike (as he follows Christ) to take back Christianity as it is meant to be and (to undercut Karen's poetic reference) to "not go gently into that good night."

As for other Christians, I've recently ceased caring about their motives. Not my job. I'm just here to love them and disciple them as best I can. Yesterday, I was at Teen Challenge when they presented their "prayer requests" (along the lines of "just that God will give me strength and helps me to know his will more").

I didn't care. I told them my real prayer requests when they asked. Exactly what fears and shames I am wrestling with. All my disorders and baggage. Feeling distant from God. Etc. A couple guys look down on me now as being a weak Christian. Mostly though, great conversations came out of my "over-share." (Hey, they asked for it!). Now they understand me better, they know what my relationship with God looks like, and they have a brother in Christ who knows their own sufferings. (For some reason several Bi-Polar, ADD, or anxiety-ridden people have turned to drugs and alcohol. Go figure!)

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From: rodhugen
Date: Thu Aug 26 20:13:44 MST 2004 Subject: Hmmm...

Yeah, if we could just separate the people from the label. The problem is that if we follow the blogger (or Gary or me, for that matter) around for a while, we'll stick some kind of label on him or her and then begin the measuring game.

This idea runs around the block every once in a while. I think I was once a Jesus Freak, a Follower of the Way, and a "New Kind of Christian". In the end we are probably stuck with the label. Besides, even with baggage it sounds better than being a Garyite. :-)

Then, of course, there are the Hugenots.

Rod

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From: russ
Date: Sat Aug 28 07:33:31 MST 2004 Subject: Ouch

Be careful when you talk about "them." I'm probably closer to "religious right" than any other political class I can find, and it was painful to have you say that "Paul and Jesus both warned us about such folk" and "yhey are also guilty of a grave sin." I'm not saying that I like all the practices that are common in the religious right...but that doesn't mean that they are the root of all evil, either.

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From: stevek
Date: Sat Aug 28 21:36:44 MST 2004 Subject: Welcome back Eric

Some reactions - of course there are those who hate us for the wrong reasons/some, but it's an overstatement to maintain that that's a universal truth. I would maintain that the fundamental reason Christianity is 'hated' (and I'm not even sure that's the right word/possibly 'under conviction' might be more accurate) is that people don't want their sin exposed. We may expose it in indelicate ways (kind of like Jesus in some cases) but the world isn't fond of anyone who would shine the light of Truth on behavior that displeases God and/or is in conflict with His Word. That's why they hated Christ/I believe it speaks to large measure why they 'hate' us. But that's the western world. Look at Islam - they don't hate what Christ stands for/they hate what western culture brings into their own cultures. And those are the same types of things what someone called the religious right stands for in some cases. That is, against porn, abortion, drug abuse, sexual perversion - all things spoken against in the Bible, and issues around which 'Christ followers' should be able to bond - and things which characterize our modern day culture, media, consumerism, etc. Yes, Christ (Christians) introduce into that mileu a lifestyle and set of values that they haven't chosen. But we're called to 'be holy as He is holy.' In numerous places in the Word behaviors which our holy God finds repugnant are spelled out. Those are the standard. We are not called to be so seeker friendly that we toss them aside for fear of being thought insensitive to a modern value system that flies in the face of the life Christ calls us to in His Word and by His example. I expect the world to resist His lifestyle. I did too, and to my shame still do in too many cases. And while it's true that often love is not the first thing people think about when they consider Christianity, that remains our calling - to be known by the fruit of the Holy Spirit within us, the foundational trait in that list being love. It's His one new commandment - to love. It's His essence - He is Love. If He's alive inside of us by the power of His Spirit, that is in fact what people should see and recognize - and in fact expect when somebody calls themself by the name of Jesus. We are a divided community - but the Word speaks to that, too. Are we for Paul, Apollos, 'self', 'stuff' - or for Christ. Jesus divides along the lines of followers and non-believers ( will divide mother against daughter, father against son) but where division exists within the Body, that's our sin and not characteristic of the unity He calls us to. "What we know is that we are right." Can we not stand on Jesus' own words - "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." Can we not profess to know what is 'right' when placed in the context of Christ's own words? Is Jesus one way among many, as many today would have us teach? Yup - as arrogant and intolerant as it may sound, we do know what is right - that is, we stand on what Christ taught about Himself and the fact that there is only one mediator between man and God;the God-man Jesus. Seeker friendliness should not be allowed to trump truth. And finally, would that it were true that our culture reflect Christian values. If the exceptions to servanthood are drowned out by any culture, it's the me-ism which dominates the west. American culture today doesn't reflect Christ's teaching - not even close. We have bought into not a Christian culture, but into a set of values which promotes placing crosses into bottles of urine and calling it 'art' - sado masichism and brutality towards children and women and calling it freedom of speech - the list goes on without much need for one to use his/her imagination. If this were a Christian culture, reflecting the values for which Jesus stands, it is my belief that we'd be the better for it. There are certainly flaws within the body - it abused the Bible to justify slavery - but the principles for which we as the body of Christ are called to stand will make this a better place and time, not the reverse (it was also as a result of action from w
ithin the church that slavery was abolished.)

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From: eric
Date: Sat Aug 28 22:47:18 MST 2004 Subject: Hmmm

---Some reactions - of course there are those who hate us for the wrong reasons/some, but it's an overstatement to maintain that that's a universal truth. I would maintain that the fundamental reason Christianity is 'hated' (and I'm not even sure that's the right word/possibly 'under conviction' might be more accurate) is that people don't want their sin exposed.

I will simply have to disagree with you on this statement. It has not been my experience. And it doesen't seem to be Jesus' experience in scripture. It is the religious leaders who often are more afraid of their sins being exposed. Often, my experience with the world has been that they know they are broken and are often seriously searching for some answers. The problem is that the church usually just offers them bandaids.

---That is, against porn, abortion, drug abuse, sexual perversion - all things spoken against in the Bible, and issues around which 'Christ followers' should be able to bond - and things which characterize our modern day culture, media, consumerism, etc.

Being against all these things is something Christians should have some unity around, but how to deal with then is where we often part ways. Here's a good question to ask yourself - Do I know at least five people who are not Christians or are new Christians that have the above problems? If you answer yes - Then I would ask you, have you had them over for dinner on a regular basis? Have you been over to their house for dinner? Would you call them friends. How often do you hangout with them?

--- Can we not stand on Jesus' own words - "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Yes we can, but you must remember that Jesus makes this statement almost 2 years into his ministry. He had walked with his disciples for a long time. He had put action and love behind those words. Often we just like to say, well the bible says it that's the way it is . . . stop your complaining and bleeding all over my rug and deal with your problems. It is much easier to quote a few verses and say that's the way it is, then to really say . . . hey I know it hurts . . . Jesus is the answer, but he's not going to take the pain away . . . and I'm gonna sit here in the emptiness of life with you and weep and pray . . and we will walk this path towards God together. I'm not going to expect you to have it all together tommorow. I could go on.

---And finally, would that it were true that our culture reflect Christian values

Well, I know Christians at the Village who believe that John Kerry's polictical platform best represents Christian Values . . . and others who think Bush best represents Christian Values. All that said, If we were willing to have a society based on loving your neighbor as yourself, I would be happy.
Maybe we could even try the Ten Commandments on for size.

Eric

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From: eric
Date: Fri Aug 27 10:19:32 MST 2004 Subject: Religion

re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.
1.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

I too would love to get rid of much of Christian culture. And honestly, that is what the author is attacking - not Christianity as a religion. I don't like the word "Christian" simply because it has so many different meanings in so many different peoples minds. But I'm stuck with it. Paul was also stuck with it in a manner of speaking. "Christian Culture" has been messed up for awhile. The writer of the article obviously hasn't been reading his bible much lately. All you have to do is read Galations or 1 and 2 Corinthians and you will quickly discover that it didn't take 1700 years for us to get to such a distorted point. If you claim to be a Christ follower then "Christianity" is either going to be your best friend or the drunk uncle you don't know what to do with, either way you are stuck with them. Most likely Christianity will be both for you. In the end, anytime a few people get together and they all claim to follow the same person . . . god . . . etc - a religion will develop . . . a culture will develop. There is one good argument for changing the system from within . . . Jesus did it . . . the prophets did it.

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From: russ
Date: Sat Aug 28 08:09:41 MST 2004 Subject: Service vs. Power

I think that we overcorrect when we attempt to totally deconstruct "religion" in the name of Christ. Or, to be more blunt, I think that when we do so we are being as selfish as those we are rebelling against.

You have to think about it in terms of Service vs. Power. As Rod's memorable message said, Christ's Kingdom is supposed to be an "upside-down kingdom." It is ruled by those who serve. But that means that we must be willing to be ruled.

When I read the article, what I see is somebody saying, "I'm hurt and upset because my reputation, and the reputation of Christ, is slandered by sinners who call themselves Christians." That's a good, valid, appropriate feeling. But his response basically boils down to, "I'm never going to give anybody the power to hurt me that way again." Similarly, he rightly desires to have a life which follows what Christ taught. But by checking out of "religion," he sets himself up as the only judge of what that life is for himself.

You have to be vulnerable. You can't get away from it. God suffers because of the actions of others, and so will we. Moreover, God submits himself to others; we see that in Christ's example in how he prays to and talks about the Father. So in our lives we have to be vulnerable to the sinful actions of others, and we have to be in submission to others. Not just to God - but to others around us.

Our terror in submitting to somebody else comes from that demand we have to make sure we're safe. But our job is not to ensure that we are safe. It's to love one another, and that is inherently an unsafe activity. Yet the happy paradox is that when we follow the Biblical model, we are safe (more or less). The Biblical model is the "upside-down kingdom." The church is ruled by those who serve. The body is shepherded by those who most selflessly love.

The Biblical model has a power structure, but it is dominated by those who serve vulnerably, not by those who wield power and position. Paul claimed to have authority over the many churches he founded (1 Corinthians 4, especially verses 14-21), but that authority was based on the fact that he loved them and felt a deep responsibility to care for them (verse 15).

The early church had a government. Jesus said that Peter was "rock on which I will build my church." When divisive questions were raised, the "elders" (including Peter) were given the power to answer it (Acts 15). Paul had authority in the churches he planted. John calls himself "the elder" in his last 3 epistles. It seems obvious that there was a heirarchy, but it was a heirarchy of love and service, not of power and self-protection. We should strive to create such a religion, not selfish attempt to protect ourselves by checking out of all religion.

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From: stevek
Date: Sat Aug 28 15:36:51 MST 2004 Subject: christian

When I read the article the guy came across to me as arrogant, pious and self-righteous. He also made some statements which are on their face simply inaccurate. Examples - "Christianity is not much different from Judaism." It is fundamentally different from Judaism. Christ is the difference. The way man/we have co-opted what Jesus stands for into our own world views may be a distortion, but in it's truest sense, "Christianity" is the fulfillment of where Judaism was heading. Another example - Christianity is "mans efforts to become what only God can make man be." No - Christ taught/and the Bible confirms/and experiencing the work of the Holy Spirit affirms in our lives that Christianity is anything but man's striving to be anything. It is all about submission to the work of the Almighty in and through us. It is upside down. If some want to take that authority away from God, they do not reflect what Jesus reflects/what Christianity is meant to be. Another - "Christianity is filled with hate, hyprocrisy, intolerance..." people may be, but that does not reflect Christ. Christianity is to reflect Christ. Do not label "Christianity" with the sin of it's followers. That sin is what He died for. "Christianity is the antithesis of what Jesus taught." The fact is that the tenants of Christianity are found in the Word. That is what Christ taught - if we walk away from those truths, we become antithetical to Christ's teaching - but "Christianity" isn't. "Christianity has nothing I want." He's again mixing up what some under the label have done with Jesus' teachings with the truth of the teachings. He also states that "Christianity is hated by the world." No kidding - read the Bible and he might see that Jesus predicted that. Why would anyone expect the world to embrace Christ - the world/we murdered Him. Now we're called to die to self, die to the work of sin in our lives and surrender ourselves to the work of the Creator/Jesus/the God-man. I agree with those who are unwilling to give away the label because some have abused it. I'm proud to call myself a Christian - I'm not proud of all of what has been done in the name of Christ, but thank God that He can use those abuses as a way to begin a dialog with those who are truely seeking something deeper than a 'religion' by which to corral their inner fleshy drives. I sometimes feel that we try so hard to distance ourselves from main-line churches that we throw the baby out with the bath water/with the result being that we come across as smug, and like this guy a bit arrogant. People do many things in the name of Christ that are not in accordance with what Scripture teaches. But let's also admit that under the label of "Christianity" peoples' lives are changed for the good, people are being fed, clothed, housed, medical care is being given, children are being taken in - the widows and orphans are beind cared for - forgiveness and tolerance for our weaknesses are given. I'm weary with hearing the body tear down the body. I'd much prefer to hear us stand arm in arm with the body and say "yes, we're Christians - we stand for and with Jesus, imperfectly, but that's the reason He died." The church does many wonderful things - we have the liberty to gather and worship in a different fashion, but different does not equal better. Some are arms, feet, eyes, hands - all are necessary, and none are perfect representations of Jesus incarnate. Let he who is without sin...

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From: eric
Date: Sat Aug 28 17:14:08 MST 2004 Subject: Welcome Back Steve

My only thought on the world hating us is that they hate us for all the wrong reasons. The Christianity that most people see, especially in the western world, is one that tries to force them into a lifestlye that they haven't chosen. Often love is not the first thing people think of when they think of Christianity. We are a divided community and it is difficult for us to even come together around Christ. We have bought into the Enlightenment project, and we believe we can know all things. And what we know is that we are right and everyone else is wrong. We are full of ourselves. We are not the humble servants who help the Samaritians. I know there are exceptions, but those exceptions are often drowned out by the Christian Culture we have created. Jesus spoke from within the jewish faith, and he was none to nice. We must speak from inside Christianity and not walk away from it.

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From: russ
Date: Sun Aug 29 10:20:28 MST 2004 Subject: misunderstanding?

Steve, I think that maybe you missed the whole point that the guy was trying to make. I think that he was saying we need to abandon the word "Christianity" because it has come to represent something that is not at all like Christ.

He was making a distinction between what he thought following Christ was supposed to look like, and the current religious institutions and culture. To him, the word "Christianity" refers to the religious institutions that are called "Christian," and to "Christian culture." To him, that thing has little to do with Christ's ideal.

So he wasn't saying that he wanted nothing to do with Christ...he was saying that the word "Christianity" and the institution "Christianity" are so corrupted by sin that they are nothing like Christ.

I only partly agree with him, but that's what I think he was trying to say.

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From: stevek
Date: Sun Aug 29 13:33:43 MST 2004 Subject: misunderstand

Russ - I didn't misunderstand the guys point. I simply don't buy into the idea of disclaiming my identity as a "Christian" because others within the body/and similarly labled/don't live up to Christ's ideals. Neither do I. But I'm still proud of the label and for what it stands. Those are Jesus' ideals, and they are ideals I believe He calls us to not only proclaim, but to affirm by the way we live. As for the 'Christian institution' - as with all institutions made up of men, it's imperfect. But the church, both institutionally and in the true sense of the word (the body of believers) has and is doing wonderful things throughout the world, and here in Tucson. I'm standing by, and with that institution, despite those imperfections. And from within we can both try to touch the needs around us and reshape the flaws we find which are hampering the institution from being more effective. The author advocates running from it. I ran to it and found Christ. We too often get caught up in programs - come to my church, we've got a great youth group, or a great worship team, or a great preacher, or a great Sunday school program...in the early church they said, come to hear this man Jesus - He's the Son of God, and He'll change your life. The institution has lost much of that drawing power, but I'm not walking with that author/I prefer to work within the church to try to refocus the invitation it has to offer to the world - come and meet Jesus. And guess what, you might even draw closer to Him through one of our programs...

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From: keibru
Date: Sun Aug 29 14:49:38 MST 2004 Subject: simple me

I don't get the dilemma (as usual). Much of the "argument" is a question of semantics. I don't see how you can deny that the word "Christian" represents something negative in the world, and I think that the word "hate" is NOT incorrect -- it precisely describes what many if not most of the world feels about the "Christian institution". It seems from reading all the above that you all (to greater or lesser degrees) condemn that part of the "institution" which is causing the backlash in the world. So do I.
Steve said it pretty much: the "institution" has its dysfunction because there are people involved. I'll go a step further: the "institution" itself has evolved into a mostly MAN-MADE approximation of the Body of Christ; if that were not so, we would have no denominations, or relational splintering over self-righteous theological disagreements which fallaciously become 'the point', and mask what the real point should be: Christ.

Really, the decision is simple: do I join with it and try to be a light within the fading institution, trying in the process to engage the world from that platform? Or do I go and try to be a light in the chaotic cosmos of secular community, and skip the institution? It's a decision we all should make...but it's A DECISION! Let's not over-moralize or over-polarize it, please. I mean, how can you argue that a believer who truly wants to follow Christ and reveal Him to a fallen community is obligated to embrace and participate in this schizophrenic institution? But by the same token, how can you criticize a believer who yearns for a truth-following Body of Christ universal and with integrity gives himself to the cause of restoring the institution to what it should be?

Answer both times: You can't.

So don't.

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From: GaryG
Date: Mon Aug 30 10:45:29 MST 2004 Subject: Diversity rules!

Wow-I posted this early last week, got no responses for a few days, and then I find out at Vespers that I've created a firestorm of controversy-Cool! Let me just clarify that I happened to stumble upon this article, read it, and in the moment said "giddyup!"...sounded good to me. I thought it would be a great launching pad for discussion, and it certainly was. I think the diversity in this community is incredible, and it shows that Christ is what matters-not religion, not politics, etc. Only through Christ can a group of people with such a variety of experiences and opinions come together.
I think an explanation is in order for those of you who don't know me that well as to the radical and sometimes almost hostile nature of my blogs and comments at Vespers. I grew up as a political liberal that hated the institution of religion-to me it represented nothing but hypocrisy and intolerance, a view that is certainly not unique. When I came to Christ in late '98, I was involved in a church (in Nashville) that was very controlling, conservative and cult-like. I joined this church because initially I saw a group of people that were serious about "following Jesus" and "living by the Bible", they didn't seem to offer the watered-down religion that I had seen in the past, and in my broken state I was ready for a radical change, "ripe for the pickin'" I was indeed. Now good things came out of this experience-I met my wife there and made some great friends, and also learned what I DIDN'T want in a church! But in the process I denied a lot of things about who I was and how I thought-I was surrounded by legalistic, performance/works oriented, conservative Republicans who thought their church was the only "true" church with the "correct" doctrine. Fast forward a few years, and some long-held beliefs of the church were being called on the carpet, leadership was falling apart (worldwide) and long suppressed feelings were coming to the surface amongst the membership. My own feelings begin to surface in the form of a slow burning anger and bitterness (how could I have been so stupid as to believe this garbage?..wounded pride). I begin to study the doctrines of other churches, the ones I was consistently taught were "wrong", and my theology begins to change, I begin to wave my liberal flag again. Karen and I move to Tucson, and I discover the Village. Unfortunately, Karen's roots in our old group of churches are deeper than mine, and she does not share the same disdain that I have for this group. She still prefers the church in Tucson that is affiliated with our old church in Nashville....the church here is certainly more progressive and less tied in to the denomination as a whole. The controlling aspect is not there, but it is still legalistic, moralistic, performance-oriented to me. I go with her in an attempt at unity, but the church feels hollow and religous to me. So, I find myself dealing with a lot of hostility towards religion on a daily basis, and I sometimes let that hostility surface as I embrace others that share the same feelings and sometimes get downright nasty with those that don't.
Part of the reason that I get so hostile with our other church is that I feel that my views are not tolerated there-the political conservatism is almost unanimous, and religous teachings are still presented in the light of "this is the only correct interpration". Now, at the Village, and outside our other church, I have many people that I consider friends that do not share my views. Steve K is a classic example-I'm somewhat Calvinistic, he's Arminian. I'm liberal, I think he's conservative. No matter-when I talk to Steve, I do not feel condemned for my differing viewpoints, and hopefully he feels the same way. I have a great deal of respect for him, and hopefully that comes across when I talk to him.
So, let me confess my struggle in extending grace to those who think differently and my battle to not be retaliatory, to "repay evil with evil" with those who are hostile to my views. It's my biggest struggle right now....
If I can, I'd like to direct interested parties to James Fowler's website http://christinyou.net/index.html....Mr Fowler articulates a lot of the feelings I have in a very deep, well-spoken way. Of particular interest is the section "Christianity is not religion", especially the sub-heading "Christianity is not morality"....more fodder for discussion!
Viva la diversity! Thanks to all who have shared...

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eric: New Website (8/7/14)
dbonilla: Annie Moses Band (3/14/14)
Suki: Ash Wednesday (3/5/14)
andrea: Good news update! (1 resp) (2/3/14)
Carena: More moving help (2/1/14)
Carena: A Friend in Need (3 resp) (1/25/14)
em: Tell me how I can pray (1/24/14)
andrea: Need for Volunteers-Foster Car... (1/19/14)
andrea: suffering (1/7/14)
rodhugen: Two quotes (2 resp) (1/3/14)
cwill: Please pray (2 resp) (1/26/24)
Carena: Polaroid Camera (12/23/13)

pictures (upload)
Suki: Vespers Dec 2012 (1/26/24)
eric: Ordination (3/16/14)
Suki: Soup Supper 2012 (3/17/14)
eric: Belonging 2012 (1/7/14)
eric: sabbath (3/16/14)

bios (upload)
Mike_Wise (1/16/13)
james (11/14/12)
clrclady (1/28/12)
SPark (11/27/11)
benjipark (12/2/10)

music (upload)
Frosted Flakes :
Everywhere j2014 (1/16/14)
Frosted Flakes :
New Found Hope J2014 (1/16/14)
Frosted Fla es :
Trinity Jan2014 (1/16/14)
Skeptic Chickens :
No Condemnation (7/29/13)
Karen and Friends :
Breastplate May 5 (5/10/13)

sermons (upload)
Eric,Ron Layman: The Disciplines RL (3/6/14)
Eric: Habakkuk Part One (1/16/14)
Eric: Noah's Ark (9/27/13)
Eric: The Fall (9/13/13)
Rod: Creation (9/13/13)

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